WWYD - tenant lied to council

heckwreak · 2021-11-06T19:24:37+00:00

Ok, bare with me it could be a long one. I'm an accidental landlord if you like - couldn't sell years ago so we ended up renting somewhere larger and renting out our property. My current tenant is moving out and has applied for a council house in a different area near her family. Anyway it turns out she had a council property for the first few years that her son was living in and only gave up the tenancy last year. This is where it gets complicated, I've issued a section 21 letter as I plan to sell when she's gone. The local authority has asked for the deposit scheme ID and tenancy agreement etc which obviously have the correct date on. She's asked me for another agreement with a different date on.... WWYD and why would they require these when she's moving out anyway?

Whingasaurus · 06/11/2021 19:27

Say no stick to a true and accurate time line

LIZS · 06/11/2021 19:28

Maybe they already suspect she had both. Did they subsidise her deposit or rent? Not for you to cover it up.

Viviennemary · 06/11/2021 19:31

I certainly would not supply her with any documents giving false information. If she has lied to the council then that is for her to sort out not you. Say your solicitor has advised against it.

2bazookas · 06/11/2021 19:45

You provide the true record, of course. Don't put yourself at risk of involvement in her fraud charges.

TobyHouseMan · 06/11/2021 19:51

If she wants to lie to the council then SHE should forge an agreement and give it to them and take the risk. Because that's what she's asking YOU to do.

Don't do it - it's this kind of thing that gets people into serious trouble - do you want to be an accessory to criminal fraud which is what she's committed?

Original poster

heckwreak · 06/11/2021 19:53

@LIZS

Maybe they already suspect she had both. Did they subsidise her deposit or rent? Not for you to cover it up.

I don't believe so. I can't believe someone could be so daft tbh.

I'm assuming she's applying for a LA house as we're up north and she's moving back down south so probably couldn't afford to rent privately there.

OP posts:

IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves · 06/11/2021 19:54

Don't do it.

Original poster

heckwreak · 06/11/2021 19:57

@TobyHouseMan

If she wants to lie to the council then SHE should forge an agreement and give it to them and take the risk. Because that's what she's asking YOU to do.

Don't do it - it's this kind of thing that gets people into serious trouble - do you want to be an accessory to criminal fraud which is what she's committed?

No I don't want to be involved and won't issue a new tenancy especially now you've all confirmed what I was thinking.

The original was drafted by an estate agent anyway.

They have also asked for the EPC and gas safety cert too which is fine as I have them but I'm not sure why they are checking up on me when she's leaving.

OP posts:

WeatherwaxLives · 06/11/2021 20:03

I expect it's because if any of that isn't in order then the section 21 will be invalid, so they wouldn't need to house her as she wouldn't have to leave.

MrsMoastyToasty · 06/11/2021 20:06

Only issue the documents with the correct date. I would also take a photo of them in case she tries to alter them.

Original poster

heckwreak · 06/11/2021 20:08

@WeatherwaxLives

I expect it's because if any of that isn't in order then the section 21 will be invalid, so they wouldn't need to house her as she wouldn't have to leave.

Ah, that makes sense thank you.

OP posts:

Original poster

heckwreak · 06/11/2021 20:08

@MrsMoastyToasty

Only issue the documents with the correct date. I would also take a photo of them in case she tries to alter them.

Good idea!

OP posts:

Worriedms · 06/11/2021 20:09

The rules of the serving section 21 is that the deposit should be protected, the tenant should have been given EPC, gas certificate and a copy of how to rent guide. In case any of this is missing then section 21 is invalid. So may be she is getting advise to contest the section 21 notice. Why? Because councils like to do that if a person is looking for a council property as they want the tenant to stay as long as it is legally possible in the property. For your sake,please do not change anything on any of the documents and also be prepared as you might need to go the court. If any of your documents are out of place then your current section 21 will be invalid and you will have to serve it again with corrections and then give a 2 months notice. I am assuming that if things were done through a reputable estate agent then all your current documents regarding tenancy are fine.

riceuten · 06/11/2021 20:09

I'd ask her why she wanted obviously false documents

peppersauce1984 · 06/11/2021 20:26

Nope. Give them the correct info. I don't know what the ramifications of lying would be but I wouldn't risk it.

senua · 06/11/2021 20:35

Do you have to give any info at all? Do the Council have the right to nosy into the arrangement between you and your tenant?

BlueMongoose · 06/11/2021 20:59

You have no choice but to write the truth. I know it's not fashionable to say so, but it's the right thing to do, as well as your best safeguard.

I always find it appalling when people not only lie, but think it is in some way acceptable to drag other people into their grubby lies, and potentially into trouble. There is far too much of it about. It's odd how some people seem to think it's okay to take the mickey out of you, or call you out as odd or anti-social, simply because you aren't a liar. It's like being honest has gone out of fashion. Stick to your guns, and tell the truth. It's always best in the long run.

Original poster

heckwreak · 06/11/2021 21:18

@Worriedms

The rules of the serving section 21 is that the deposit should be protected, the tenant should have been given EPC, gas certificate and a copy of how to rent guide. In case any of this is missing then section 21 is invalid. So may be she is getting advise to contest the section 21 notice. Why? Because councils like to do that if a person is looking for a council property as they want the tenant to stay as long as it is legally possible in the property. For your sake,please do not change anything on any of the documents and also be prepared as you might need to go the court. If any of your documents are out of place then your current section 21 will be invalid and you will have to serve it again with corrections and then give a 2 months notice. I am assuming that if things were done through a reputable estate agent then all your current documents regarding tenancy are fine.

Thank you.

Originally I was going to find another tenant but as I've decided to sell she was pleased I was issuing a section 21 as it moves her up the list.

She's an older lady and I can't help thinking she's doing as her son advises.... not that that makes it any better.

It will be a relief to (hopefully) get rid of the house.

Thank you all for your replies.

OP posts:

Original poster

heckwreak · 06/11/2021 21:21

@riceuten

I'd ask her why she wanted obviously false documents

I'll do as PP suggested and say I've sought advise from the estate agent etc and legally can't.

I really can't afford for her to decide not to pay rent for the next few months.

OP posts:

OrcharD14 · 06/11/2021 23:07

I bought a property on a mixed tenure development many years ago - I don’t think they exist anymore, but I’m happy to be proven wrong!
It was awful - some of the social housing tenants had up to 4 vehicles per property, which caused chaos in our parking area. They paid less than half the market value for their properties, yet had up to 4 wage earners in their household, so they spent their surplus income on expensive cars. We couldn’t afford fancy cars, as our property cost twice the cost of theirs. This needs to be addressed.

Hadjab · 07/11/2021 11:59

@OrcharD14

I bought a property on a mixed tenure development many years ago - I don’t think they exist anymore, but I’m happy to be proven wrong! It was awful - some of the social housing tenants had up to 4 vehicles per property, which caused chaos in our parking area. They paid less than half the market value for their properties, yet had up to 4 wage earners in their household, so they spent their surplus income on expensive cars. We couldn’t afford fancy cars, as our property cost twice the cost of theirs. This needs to be addressed.

How is this relevant?

whataboutbob · 07/11/2021 16:35

I was asked by a tenant to lie to the police about her real address for her ( at the height of lockdown, if she was found travelling between different addresses- I think she was being a bit paranoid) . Obviously I said I wouldn’t . That was the end of that.

verymiddleaged · 07/11/2021 17:18

Council that require people to be homeless before they house them often advise tenants to wait until they are evicted through the courts.
I would be very cautious about this happening.