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Lathe & plaster ceiling falling down

22 replies

AGreatUsername · 06/11/2021 09:22

I need some advice please. The ceiling in my sons room has had a small crack since we moved in 18 months ago, but over the last few months has got worse and is not noticeably dropping, with the crack now extending up through a good 4 feet of the coving. We can’t currently afford someone in to take the lot down, how can we make it safer? Cut a section out? Put a prop between the wardrobe and ceiling? The rest of the room looks ok but this section is pretty big and the plaster will be thick and heavy so I’m worried.

Lathe & plaster ceiling falling down
OP posts:
AGreatUsername · 06/11/2021 09:22

*now dropping not not!

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 06/11/2021 10:20

You really need someone to check out the whole ceiling. A builder maybe? Not sure cutting out one failed area will work if the rest is in poor condition! If the rest of it is perfect it could be patched. I would want to know why it’s failed though.

Mantlemoose · 06/11/2021 10:21

As PP.you need to find out why this has happened.

Octothorpe · 06/11/2021 10:43

If it comes down it will cause a lot of mess but more importantly, without wanting to worry you too much, it's heavy and if anyone's caught underneath a collapse that could be dangerous. However, having said that, lath and plaster is designed to be able to move and cracks are not uncommon in a period house (which I assume it is, from the look of the coving).

But something has caused quite significant movement - OP, as a first step, can you get access to the loft and have a better look at what's happening with the laths there, obviously safely: shine a torch just from the loft hatch while still on the ladder, perhaps, so you're not stepping on the joists and putting any weight on that ceiling? If the plaster 'keys' that should be splayed through the gaps in the laths and hold the structure in place have crumbled and failed, that could be one reason why it's dropping..

It would be a good idea though to find a plasterer who understands how lath and plaster works, and get them to take a look at it. A lot of everyday plasterers don't have this specialist skill so you might have to hunt around a bit.

Lath and plaster is repairable but you need the right person to do it.

(A veteran of lath and plaster here)

PigletJohn · 06/11/2021 11:52

unfortunately L&P ceilings do that. The nails rust away over time and the laths rot, especially if there has been damp or a leaky roof or pipe, and the ceilings were mostly shaken loose between 1940 and 1945.

It can be triggered by slamming doors, or by walking about or storing stuff in the loft.

Best action would be, as @Octothorpe says, to have an experienced person repair it. An economical way is to have plasterboard screwed up from below, and plaster skimmed. But you also have to work from above to remove the plaster nibs that have fallen down into the gap between the old plaster and the joists or laths because they will prevent the plaster being lifted up. I've done it by hand and with a powerful builders vac.

If you want a cheap bodge, you can put a sheet of ply or other board under the ceiling, propped up with "deadmen" which is a builder's name for props. It will hold it up and prevent it falling on the person below.

Don't pick a plasterer from advertising websites where they pay to be listed, even if it masquerades as a recommendations website.

Ask you local historic buildings or residents association. A specialist can re-attach the original ceiling rather than using plasterboard.

If you are above-average handy, it is possible to DIY, but would take to long to explain here.

If it does fall down, the dirt will be unbelievable, and lime plaster is a sort of thick cement, it will cause damage and possibly injury.

If it falls down, or you have it taken down, cut around the coving and cornice to retain the original features. These were made in a Victorian factory and nailed up by the plasterer separately to plastering the ceiling, so there is no need for them to be destroyed. They are fairly easy to repair if chipped or cracked, by a person familiar with this work.

Only use screws. Do not use nails as the hammer blows may shake loose the fragile plaster.

AGreatUsername · 06/11/2021 12:11

Thanks everyone. Our third floor is above that, actually right above is a stud wall and my dressing table so there’s not much footfall above. However the house has previously had movement so I assume it’s that plus renovations that have destabilised it. Unfortunately we can’t get at it from above now as we had our entire floor relayed with boards above due to the slope on it, and there’s now built in furniture etc on it. Eventually we are aware it needs to all come down and be replaced which is fine, I am amazed it’s last the 125 years it has! But it’s just as a temporary fix to make it safe really as we can’t afford a full repair right now until after Christmas 😭

OP posts:
Octothorpe · 06/11/2021 12:18

I will now go about with a big smug grin on my face knowing that PigletJohn has endorsed something I've said! Grin

But yes, the mess from a collapsed ceiling isn't nice. The Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings (SPAB for short) might be able to recommend some local plasterers who work with lime, OP.

Octothorpe · 06/11/2021 12:21

Sorry, @AGreatUsername, I just cross-posted with you and have seen that the ceiling isn't directly under a loft. A temporary fix as recommended by PigletJohn sounds the best course of action for now, in that case.

BlueMongoose · 06/11/2021 16:53

Definitely do something about it. When L&P ceilings fail, it can be spectacular. I know, as a child, I was under one when it fell. I was lucky that my friend who was next to me saw it and pulled me out of the way- she was a very brave and quick-thinking lass, she must have only been about 9 or 10 years old. I just got a small scald on the end of my hand that was still under it when it fell (it was hot water that brought it down).

PigletJohn · 06/11/2021 17:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PigletJohn · 06/11/2021 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DuesToTheDirt · 06/11/2021 18:12

We had one partially fall in once, about 3 weeks after a crack first appeared. Lots of dust and dirt and it looked pretty heavy. (We'd tried to get plasterers out in the meantime but they were all busy), When it fell in we just called all the cowboys other plasterers in the area and got the rest of it pulled down and replaced.

Having seen what they're like, I wouldn't risk it landing on a child. Get someone out to assess it and in the meantime move your son to another room.

PigletJohn · 06/11/2021 18:17

btw an old L&P ceiling is thick and heavy, and very good for blocking noise.

If you have it pulled down and renewed in plasterboard, consider two layers plus skim (this is often done for fireproofing) which will be about as good. If you have access from above you can add fibreglass batts as well.

A single layer of plasterboard is not much good for noise suppression.

Avoid holes in ceilings, e.g. for downlighters, if you want a good noise and fire barrier.

PigletJohn · 06/11/2021 18:35

here's one I had earlier

Lathe & plaster ceiling falling down
Lathe & plaster ceiling falling down
Lathe & plaster ceiling falling down
BlueMongoose · 06/11/2021 20:47

The one that fell on me left a huge hole! The laths came down with the plaster and the hot water.....it was a right mess! Grin

Octothorpe · 06/11/2021 21:08

Oh dear, I didn't see PigletJohn's deleted messages but I hope it didn't sound as though I was being sarcastic - I was genuinely thrilled that someone whose advice I always really value had approved of what I'd said.....

bumpertobumper · 06/11/2021 21:22

Ours fell down in the sitting room, there had been cracks for ages, then we had the room redecorated, cracks were filled which in hindsight was a mistake and obviously disturbed its equilibrium.
Some cracks reappeared and a few weeks later the whole thing came crashing down - very luckily narrowly missing DS. A chunk of the plaster smashed the floorboard.
You are right to get it made safe, as soon as possible I'd say, without wanting to scare you.
We were able to save the coving, replaced with a few layers of plasterboard.
Insurance didn't cover it - wear and tear as no water leak.

PigletJohn · 06/11/2021 23:47

@Octothorpe

Oh dear, I didn't see PigletJohn's deleted messages but I hope it didn't sound as though I was being sarcastic - I was genuinely thrilled that someone whose advice I always really value had approved of what I'd said.....
don't worry, the deleted posts were on the wrong thread Smile
minipie · 07/11/2021 00:58

We had a similar crack (probably less bad tbh). Builder did a temporary fix using 37 self tapping screws. I don’t know exactly what a self tapping screw is, but those screws held the ceiling for 8 years till we replaced it properly.

Octothorpe · 07/11/2021 12:23

PigletJohn phew! Smile

maofteens · 07/11/2021 13:47

When I bought my 1860 house we knew that the downstairs hallway and the two big bedrooms upstairs had failed ceilings. Luckily I could have it all done before I moved in as it is incredibly messy. We had them removed and reboarded and unfortunately lost the original coving but I got a specialist in to take a profile of some remaining coving and he made new moulds for it and you couldn't tell once it was done.

Thebookswereherfriends · 07/11/2021 14:01

We had an entire large and plaster ceiling fall down - it was our bedroom and happened while we were out one afternoon. I have never seen anything like it! It was just an awful mess to clear up - any soft furnishings had to be got rid of because the dust was just ingrained, new curtains, new carpet, hours of shovelling and hoovering. Get it sorted sooner rather than later.

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