Aargh - reduce for buyers or stand tough?

[Thurlow]

Had a bit of a saga selling and buying anyway so am at my wits end here. Buyers bought in May, we lost properties in the summer, now waiting on a lovely chain-free property that we really want.

Our house is 120 years old and needed cosmetic work compared to other houses on our street, so was priced 10-15k less that other propertiesto take account of this. Offer accepted was 6k under asking. Buyers have held on for months while we found another property, so on the one hand we're grateful to them. But survey has come back and buyers now say house needs more work than they expected so have asked for a £14.5k reduction - this is apparently for some building work a contractor has said needs doing, but is the kind of thing the contractor was never going to say didn't need doing, so it's pretty hard to trust that, and anyway if the work does need doing, it's not so urgent the house is going to fall apart within 5 years if it's not done...

We can't afford that reduction. Plus that would mean they got our house at an absolute steal for a property this size in a very popular part of town. And of course, in 6 months the property has gone up by about 20k anyway!

We could say no, it's offer price or we relist (house should sell well at the price we want, market is sparse, and we could be more open about work needed doing) - but obviously that means we do risk losing our onward property, which is a dream house.

Gah! What would you do?

@EdgeOfTheSky

I would point out that prices have risen since you accepted their offer.

This!!

Plus, are you sure about offering any reduction? I'd hold firm.

Also- is this a builder that has advised them or did it come up on the survey? If just a builder then I'd tell them to do one!

Presumably if you are all looking at exchange/completion dates then their valuation for mortgage purposes was acceptable?

If this is the case I wouldn't budge an inch. I would say that you're not willing to negotiate and that you are happy to remarked the property should they wish to withdraw.

Gazundering shouldn't be allowed.

@TheEconomista

I'm always surprised how aggressive people are about this particular issue. A house needing a new roof isn't a small thing. I'm not a surveyor so unless it literally had holes I'd have no idea on viewing what state it was in. I really don't see it as 'opportunistic' it's thousands of pounds a buyer wasn't expecting to pay.

However, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. The reply above is perfect.

Out of interest, if you found your new house needed an extra £15k of work (which you don't have, as you say) wouldn't you want/need to renegotiate too?

Honestly you really don't have to be a surveyor to be able to tell if a roof is old or not. My house is as old as the OP's. It has the original roof. My survey said it needed replacing (as I knew it would because surveys always say that). That was 12 years ago and I still haven't done it. My roof doesn't leak.

Don't offer any reduction at all, it's showing a weak side

Also going on about being near completion highlights that they are trying sneaky tactics by bringing this up so close to completion.

Your letter sounds like you might give it for ease.

Don't let the bustards get away with it.

I’d be a bit circumspect about bringing in any idea of price rise. You agreed a deal based on the market conditions of the time. Mortgage rates might go up and make it more expensive for them to buy. Presumably you wouldn’t entertain a negotiation now, based on that? I think any notional rise in value is irrelevant to this specific matter.

I’d not offer any reduction and I’d reword a bit:

After detailed consideration, we are sorry to say that we are unable to sell the property at any lower price. The property was priced by __ to take into account the £XXX worth of work needed at some point in the future to bring it up to a similar standard as other properties in the local area, and the offer we accepted was then a further £XXX underneath that price.

Without receiving the price originally offered, we are unable to move forward with our onward purchase.

^We understand the buyers position but the roof is currently sound and replacement is not urgent. As we are not able to accept any lower price for our property and complete our onward purchase if this is a deal breaking issue we will sadly accept the chain failing at this late stage so close to exchange of contracts and relist the property for new buyers.

Out of interest, if you found your new house needed an extra £15k of work (which you don't have, as you say) wouldn't you want/need to renegotiate too?

If it was a hidden issue that a surveyor uncovered then absolutely I’d want to renegotiate. Or if the mortgage valuation was lower. But an original roof on a 120-yr-old building is plain to see. If it was subsequently found to be leaking or damaged and the roof repair was urgent, that’s different. But OP says it’s not urgent - it’s just that an 120-yr-old roof will likely need to be replaced in the next 5-10 years.

There's a typo, I think - should be all parties in the chain are NOW in a position to look at exchange dates; rather than NOT in a position?

Have you seen the survey?

I wouldn't mention price rises, either - economic conditions are irrelevant; you can say price rises have risen, they can say mortgage rates are going up too and affordability is going down... it's all irrelevant. You've agreed a sale for £XXX; they can either afford it and want to go ahead or they can't.

@Hunkydory99

If they’ve been hanging on for you surely they’ve had the survey and known about this ‘issue’ for some time, why are they bringing it up now? My guess would be because they’re being opportunistic. Say no.

This. They've had plenty of time to assess what the house needs spending on it, and bouncing this in just before exchange is bloody cheeky IMHO. It would be a bit different if everything had moved very quickly and they'd found it hard to find someone to give them a quote any earlier.

Also, IME, people who do this are quite capable of trying something else on next.

I've asked our EA, as they are on our side, what they would relist the property for today.

I'm of the same opinion with the roof - yes, one day it will need redoing but there is nothing wrong with it now and actually no other houses on this street (terraced, same age) have a new roof yet.

And thank you for the continued advice, it's invaluable - we keep wavering on the token 2k reduction or not!

And also thanks for pointing out my typo, it should indeed be "now"

So you have already given a £10 - 15k reduction - they have offered 6k less so Approx £ 26 - 31 k reduction compared to other similar houses.

If the extra £14.5 k so up to the thick end of £30k less than other similar properties means you can't afford the house you want - then the answer to me is clear ( given you said you don't need move ) just say no - deal off cannot accept that price. ) Disappointing but if it does not get you that one house you want it isn't worth it - I would sit back and try again in the future. .

Sorry - that meant to say £16 to 21K reduction

If you open at a 2k reduction - it’s the start of a new negotiation, they counter at 10k etc. Tortuous. I wouldn’t bother offering a reduction at all.

I've asked our EA, as they are on our side, what they would relist the property for today.
I would also ask them if they have any potential buyers waiting in the wings. It would let you know how strong your position is with the current lot.

I wouldn’t discount. They are trying it in big time. I have a similar aged property. Surveys always say roof could do with replacing but mine hasn’t been and nor have any in my street.

Say that you have discounted for work needing to be done and you’re notable to discount any further. If they are not able to complete you will sadly put the house back on the market. Call their bluff.

@NoSquirrels

We can't afford that reduction.

Be honest with them.

Say you understand their position, but it’s impossible to sell to them at that price. That it was listed to take into account £15,000-worth of work needed at a point in the future, that they got it for £6,000 under that, and you cannot move forward with your onward purchase if you don’t sell at the price they offered originally.

So you’re terribly sorry but if they are prepared to walk away over this you understand their position and will resist the property.

(It’s a polite and sympathetic ‘fuck off’)

Perfect!

Any house that age will mean putting aside for a new roof in the future- as in, retiling or reslating, with new underfelt and laths. It's not something you can ask money off for, it's just obvious it will need to be done sometime. If adjoining houses haven't, it's not likely to be urgent.

If the timbers are sound, which they usually will be, it's not a big deal. Unless the house has a very big roof, and needs complex scaffolding, that ought not to cost 14 grand.

If it's not leaking, I'd not knock off a penny on a house that age for a roof. It's just normal wear and tear, and anyone buying an old house should know it. IF it leaks, then it's a question of the cost of fixing that, not a whole new roof- unless that's the only way to fix the leak (highly unlikely).

@ NoSquirrels @Laquila - I think you have said so much better than I was trying to say - if the extra reduction makes the house you want impossible then to me an easy decision to say - no sorry - this new offer is not acceptable. We shall wait and put it back on the market. & obviously you have to be prepared to but if it does not get what you need to get the house you want and you can still live there - then I would invite them to politely fuck off and see what else you can do - if you were hanging out for an extra few £££ then different - but this seems a different decision ( from what you have described ) .

So a roofing contractor told them they need a new roof! That's ironic since thats how they make money.
If it's an olds property then surely they have had a structural survey and are now aware of a professional opinion of the property rather than a saleman's perspective business opportunity.
You have priced accordingly and reduced 6K. hold firm and relist if the turn away. As you said the house is worth more nonsense originally listing and they should know this. Get your EA to explain and work on your behalf for the sales commission.

More since originally listing

Get your EA to explain and work on your behalf for the sales commission.
Good point. If you drop your price by £14,500 then the EA will lose about £145 which isn't a lot. If you walk out of this deal altogether then the EA will lose all the commission - somewhere in the region of £3,000, I'm guessing?
It might be worth hinting about the second scenario to the EA. Put the wind up them!

So a roofing contractor told them they need a new roof! That's ironic since thats how they make money that's exactly what I said to the EA

OK, wavering properly on the 2k now...

I agree that I wouldn't give them any discount. You are effectively entering into negotiations when there is nothing to negotiate. And surely they had the survey done ages ago?

If its a slate roof then they can last over 200 to 250years with only minor repairs. Just because it's old does not mean it needs replacing. If it's water tight it's good.