House stolen

[Chimley]

I read this story on the BBC and it sounds like a complete nightmare! It looks like he lives elsewhere but obviously a) he did still have stuff in the stolen house which has been removed and b) he no longer owns a house he clearly wants to own, being £131k poorer to boot!

BBC News - Luton man left shocked as his house is ‘stolen’
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-59069662

With all the mention of fraud in this thread I hope posters aren't simply clicking on the links posted by Internet randoms and updating all their details 👀

I mean I'm pretty sure no mnetters are fraudsters but still! It's slightly ironic!

@GameofPhones

How could the fraudster know that checks would fail both at DVLA and the bank? Both failures were necessary for the fraud to succeed. Apparently the solicitors didn't carry out full checks either.

That makes me wonder if he had contacts in any or all of those places.

As the poor victim here is a vicar this has been doing the rounds on various fb groups dh and I belong to (he’s a vicar too). Lots of us own property like this because we live in houses that come with the job and can often end up far away from any property you own.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover that the ‘sellers’ solicitor/conveyancer is decidedly dodgy, if they can find them at all

A driving licence is a valid identity document for the swearing of an oath.

www.boysandmaughan.co.uk/site/personal_advice/oaths_declarations_identity_docs/

Using this, the solicitor can get on with conveyancing the property.

When I had to swear an affidavit that the documents I was using to prove my identity were genuine, I was shocked at how easy it was.

Using a copy of the title deeds (£3 from the internet) and a fake driving licence (photo ID), the fraudster could then get a locksmith to change the locks to get in.

The fraudster could then stage the house for sale, engage an estate agent and sell asap.

With a fraudulent driving licence, the Council Tax bill in the owner's name and the sworn affidavit and access to any or all other documents in the house, a current account can be set up by the fraudster.

Once inside the house, the fraudster can gain access to all the victim's bank details, the birth certificate, marriage certificate, other bills - anything and everything needed for 'proof of identity'.

Once inside the house, the fraudster has everything he/she needs.

If leaving the house for a long time, always redirect or stop the mail and find a safe place for any personal documents, passports, photo ID and get someone to visit every so often.

I heard this on You and Yours. It was as though every decision was the wrong one/lax by all parties - what could go wrong did go wrong. On the programme, they even played voice recordings of the fraudster and the lawyer who'd investigated this said she had investigated many other cases.

If this why you're often advised to not pay off your mortgage in full?

”The gaping holes in the UK property market left by the police, agents, lenders and brokers for criminal to slip through have been highlighted by a shocking new mortgage fraud case”

thenegotiator.co.uk/mortgage-fraud-estate-agent/

@SwedishEdith

I heard this on You and Yours. It was as though every decision was the wrong one/lax by all parties - what could go wrong did go wrong. On the programme, they even played voice recordings of the fraudster and the lawyer who'd investigated this said she had investigated many other cases.

If this why you're often advised to not pay off your mortgage in full?

I thought it was so that the lender would keep your deeds nice & safe for you. But this would be a much better reason!

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover that the ‘sellers’ solicitor/conveyancer is decidedly dodgy, if they can find them at all

The solicitor is recorded on the programme. There’s no doubting who the firm is. Almost certainly not “dodgy”.

@Gingernaut

A driving licence is a valid identity document for the swearing of an oath.

www.boysandmaughan.co.uk/site/personal_advice/oaths_declarations_identity_docs/

Using this, the solicitor can get on with conveyancing the property.

When I had to swear an affidavit that the documents I was using to prove my identity were genuine, I was shocked at how easy it was.

Using a copy of the title deeds (£3 from the internet) and a fake driving licence (photo ID), the fraudster could then get a locksmith to change the locks to get in.

The fraudster could then stage the house for sale, engage an estate agent and sell asap.

With a fraudulent driving licence, the Council Tax bill in the owner's name and the sworn affidavit and access to any or all other documents in the house, a current account can be set up by the fraudster.

Once inside the house, the fraudster can gain access to all the victim's bank details, the birth certificate, marriage certificate, other bills - anything and everything needed for 'proof of identity'.

Once inside the house, the fraudster has everything he/she needs.

If leaving the house for a long time, always redirect or stop the mail and find a safe place for any personal documents, passports, photo ID and get someone to visit every so often.

Are you the fraudster telling us how easy it is to steal a house and how to do it!

No.

I'm the scared householder, with a paid off mortgage, trying not to panic.

For those of you without a mortgage, here is how to register an interest in your property and set up an alert www.gov.uk/protect-land-property-from-fraud

Registering an interest costs money but is far safer than the alerts. The land registry are working on a backlog so notifications will be delayed.

You can stop HM Land Registry registering a sale or mortgage on your property unless a conveyancer or solicitor certifies the application was made by you
I don’t see how that would help though? A solicitor already identified the “seller” in this case as legitimately being the property owner. The “seller” had all of the correct (fake) ID. If they can fool that solicitor then they could fool the solicitor who was certifying their application too.

Our solicitors warned us about this happening when we bought 3yrs ago so it’s not a new thing.

Why is it always the solicitor's who get the finger pointed at? The fraudsters are out to deceive and go to great lengths. Solicitors are given the responsibility of being "policemen" for fraudulent documents, dirty money etc. They don't have inbuilt super sonic detection powers.

Land Registry got rid of physical title deeds in 2003 combined with everyone wanting to instruct out of town solicitors and do everything online. Recipe for disaster.

@Chimley

Agree with you! Surely the 'new' owner loses the stolen property and the solicitors are in the shit?!

Exactly!!!! God I bloody hate lawyers!!!

@RustyBear

Our solicitor advised us to register with Land Registry when we bought - we get regular reports every 6 months plus alerts if anyone is trying to change anything.

www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Very easy to register, I'd advise everyone to do it, particularly if they have a property they don't live in all the time

Thank you so much, I wasn't aware of this and have registered.

The more I think about this, the more awful I feel for the poor man with nowhere to live, and who has lost all his earthly possessions.

@MrsFin

The more I think about this, the more awful I feel for the poor man with nowhere to live, and who has lost all his earthly possessions.

Absolutely agree. It's not just the house, it's everything in it. Like a house fire which is a worry of mine.

@mackers1

Why is it always the solicitor's who get the finger pointed at? The fraudsters are out to deceive and go to great lengths. Solicitors are given the responsibility of being "policemen" for fraudulent documents, dirty money etc. They don't have inbuilt super sonic detection powers.

Land Registry got rid of physical title deeds in 2003 combined with everyone wanting to instruct out of town solicitors and do everything online. Recipe for disaster.

Because solicitors also get paid a lot of money to do this. Pretty sure my solicitor wanted numerous forms of ID and my entire life history, not just a driving licence. Although the solicitors in this case might have got more ID, it’s not mentioned in the story.

Rev Hall in this case bought his house in 1990 according to You and Yours, so should have had physical deeds still.

Is this really only something to worry about if you have no mortgage on the property? I mean how do the fraudsters find out this information

Ive just bought a house with no mortgage...im really worried now.

@myusernamewastakenbyme

Ive just bought a house with no mortgage...im really worried now.

Make sure you have an email address registered as one of the permitted contact details. You will then be notified immediately by email of any activity on your property. There is a guide on the HM Land Registry gov.uk website on how to change contact details.

@Korbah

You can stop HM Land Registry registering a sale or mortgage on your property unless a conveyancer or solicitor certifies the application was made by you I don’t see how that would help though? A solicitor already identified the “seller” in this case as legitimately being the property owner. The “seller” had all of the correct (fake) ID. If they can fool that solicitor then they could fool the solicitor who was certifying their application too.

By having an email address as one of your contacts on the register you are emailed as soon as any attempts are made to change address, owner etc. so can object. The reason this case was successful is because the fraudster intercepted the post, they can’t do that with email unless they also fraudulently take over your email account.

@Gingernaut

A driving licence is a valid identity document for the swearing of an oath.

www.boysandmaughan.co.uk/site/personal_advice/oaths_declarations_identity_docs/

Using this, the solicitor can get on with conveyancing the property.

When I had to swear an affidavit that the documents I was using to prove my identity were genuine, I was shocked at how easy it was.

Using a copy of the title deeds (£3 from the internet) and a fake driving licence (photo ID), the fraudster could then get a locksmith to change the locks to get in.

The fraudster could then stage the house for sale, engage an estate agent and sell asap.

With a fraudulent driving licence, the Council Tax bill in the owner's name and the sworn affidavit and access to any or all other documents in the house, a current account can be set up by the fraudster.

Once inside the house, the fraudster can gain access to all the victim's bank details, the birth certificate, marriage certificate, other bills - anything and everything needed for 'proof of identity'.

Once inside the house, the fraudster has everything he/she needs.

If leaving the house for a long time, always redirect or stop the mail and find a safe place for any personal documents, passports, photo ID and get someone to visit every so often.

See my pp if you have an email as a registered address on the Land Register you are emailed as soon as any interest is shown in the property allowing you to intervene at an early stage.

It’s a few years since we bought property, but I seem to recall having to take more than one specified form of ID to the solicitor. Maybe even 3, inc. a recent utility bill.

In this case I would suspect the solicitor of being dodgy - hardly unknown, in fact a neighbour of ours was not only struck off, but also banged up, for fraud - and IIRC money laundering.