Help me with my extension layout

[BirdsRoundandRound]

Would like to gather opinions on the best layout for our potential rear extension.

Bit of context - very traditional 1930s terrace. In the first picture, the decking at the rear is 1m off the ground, so there is a fairly substantial drop from the rear doors. Because of this it's hard to work out how to lay out the extension by totally opening up the back. To be within PD there needs to be a 40cm (2 step) drop into the extension, with a further 60cm drop into the garden afterwards.

I think the drawings I've done should be self explanatory, but happy to clarify anything. I'd basically like to get a utility to house a freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer, drying cupboard (been coveting!) and somewhere for tall cleaning items. If it could also be used to keep appliances such as coffee makers even better. I'd also like more space for dining table and to have some stools at the island (no space or overhang at the moment). A second sofa seating area would be a bonus.

Which do you think is better? Or does anyone have any other clever designs?

Not the 3rd layout, it will drive you mad walking through your dining room to get to your kitchen.

I would put your kitchen on the left hand side of your "middle" room so that if you want to access the dining room / sofa area, you don't have to move around the island unit / walk between the kitchen cabinets.

I feel like the second one would give the most usable space but the first one would be okay too.

Why do you need the 40cm drop, is it related to the max roof height? Could it be avoided if you have a different roof design e.g open into the apex or lower ceiling with skylight?

Definitely not the second one. You either have the utility open to the hall with all the STUFF visible or you close it off and lose the light.
I like the internal Utilty cupboard in the first one but you can make it shallower. It doesn't need its own 'loading' floorspace. If you have narrow bifolds across the full width of the utility space you can open it up fully when accessing machines etc, but when you close it that bit of floorspace belongs to the kitchen.
What do you visualise being on the left section of the kitchen area, left of the stools and peninsula?

I would go for the second layout but lose the peninsular unit and have units on the outer walls to maximise the feeling of space in that room.

Kitchen in red and utility cupboard in purple. This gives you more kitchen space and a less cluttered walk through to the extension.

For me, it would be the second one - or something like that. So best views of the garden in the social space.

We have a similar issue in that our garden is lower than the ground floor level (though not as much as yours). One option we looked at was dropping the floor of the ‘middle room’ (where your kitchen is in the second option) so that the open plan space is all on one level.

By the way, do you know where it says in the PD rules about roof height and steps down the garden? (ie where you have to measure the 3/4-metre height from) Our architect said we can “build up the external floor by 300mm” and it will be measured from that point, but I can’t find that online anywhere.

I would also query if you need both walk through steps down into lower extension.
Keep both openings but make one a floor to ceiling glazed single pane of glass, narrower than a standard door. Most probably the right hand one - Gives you a statement line of sight from front door, and also increases usable space in the lower section as you don't need to allow a thoroughfare

I like @Bimblybomeyelash plan, combined with glazing over RH arch

@Pokhora yes it's to do with maximum eaves height of 3m, i don't think we can avoid the drop.

@BruceAndNosh in the alcove on the left of the 2nd design I thought built in dresser or drinks cabinet, something like that. I like the idea of the bifolds to the utility cupboard.

@Bimblybomeyelash I had played around with a similar design to the one youve drawn, but because of where the door opening is the island would have to be tiny to get enough space to walk around, and it feels a bit awkward. another option would be to have a peninsular rather than an island I guess. It just didn't seem to work so well (I've done a 3D drawing on floorplanner to show what I mean)

@MsShopper I had thought about dropping the level of the existing room as that would definitely open up more options to us, but I would imagine that is incredibly expensive? I have a friend who works in planning so I spoke to her about the roof height, but also on our local planning site it shows it. It's basically natural ground height at the rear of the existing building (e.g. so if the ground slopes downward in the garden it has to be 3m from next to the house but could be higher at the end of extension if the ground slopes away). I don't think your architect is correct!

@BruceAndNosh i like the glazing idea. Something to play around with, I hadn't thought about having an internal window. I think if I kept the kitchen where it is I would have to leave the RH door for easy access to the dining table

Don't write off small islands.
We added one to our existing old kitchen - the worktop was 100 X 120cm and it was very functional. We used it as our main prep area, but we didn't have seating at it.

Is there a reason you’re going for permitted development and not full planning? At the moment none of those spaces are suited to a kitchen island, however an extra metre depth to the extension would change that. If there’s an option to go a metre further out then I think it would be false economy not to.

I actually like the walk-through utility option. But i would keep everything behind doors (sliding wardrobe type doors could work well) so that it’s sleek and uncluttered when used as a corridor. And would have the kitchen units on the dining room side, if drainage etc permits.

@MyAnacondaMight it's more to do with the fact that our garden isn't that big and we can't really afford to lose another meter.

That, combined with the drop to the garden is making this quite tricky

It seems to be a "given" that all islands must have seating at them, even if there is a nearby table. My husband's only input to our recent kitchen refurb was "really wanting seating at the island"
We hardly ever use it, and when we do it's just to prove to ourselves that it wasn't a waste of space!
If you DO have island seating, make sure you avoid stools with high backs that can't be pushed right under

here is a variation on Bimbly's plan. The key change is that you have only one wide step from the kitchen to dining room on the right, and then have an open internal window/hatch on the left (marked H). you can talk & pass dishes of food through the window, but not walk through. K= kitchen that has plenty of space for island / penisula. U = utility as before. The dining table (D) and sofa (S) have swapped locations.

this means you have one wide easy walkway from hall past the kitchen to the dining room & garden, and you have plenty of kitchen space that won't be a corridor.

forgot image

@parietal ‘s design looks like the best so far. Suggest pocket glazed fire doors either end of the kitchen, to help contain the noise (and fire risk) from the kitchen and/or utility. You can absolutely have a door at the top of the steps down, and I think it would be a mistake to leave the extension totally open to kitchen noise.

Why is a kitchen noisy! Tv and children are way noisier! I’m not liking the split steps. Open if out with a beam and have one opening. Then decide what you want at the higher and lower level. You can get a lot of kitchen in the lower level and, if that’s where you sir can time, get the light from outside and utilise the garden. Internal kitchens are always dark. So make the darker space for the utility. No one sits in it! Open up the rest so you can dine near the kitchen.

Washer, dryer, extractor hood, coffee machine… all noisy, even in a utility cupboard.

One other thought - what is the existing ceiling height downstairs? If it’s generous, say 270cm+, then you could drop the extension ceiling height by the requisite 40cm to 230cm and have a level floor inside. That would open up options somewhat - you could have a kitchen peninsula open to the extension etc. Roof lights would help to stop the ceiling from feeling oppressive, and you could make a feature of the 1m steps down to the garden.

I still think you should go out 4m rather than 3m. The space you have is limited, so all the more reason to use it for the house that you’ll be in every day rather than the garden which will be used less often.

I love your Floorplan 3D. Is this easy to do?

I am planning an extension along the lines of your second option (see attached). I share as the measurements may be a useful comparison.
The utility houses the washer, dryer, under counter fridge and under counter freezer.

@RichmondMumof2 yes it's floorplanner.com - takes a bit of effort to start, but it's amazing once you get used to it!

Your plan is exactly the same as our neighbour who (lucky for them) doesn't have a drop to the garden. It works really well. We can't use that option with split level as the island would be against the drop.

The only way to avoid the drop is to lower the current floor as its not possible otherwise to stick to 3m eaves height at the end of the extension. We have v high ceilings already so would also need to think about lowering them so it doesn't feel weird!

I think i'm landing on something similar to @parietal design, but with a doorway rather than the step (the drop would make the hatch quite difficult to manage). By making the current patio door opening smaller and the back door opening slightly larger it balances out the room and gives us everything we want. Image attached!

Just ask know there were a few of you with a similar extension conundrum to us - I was watching a programme on extensions the other evening and there were a couple who had a similar drop in their extension, and had this clever slatted screen as a solution. So it zoned the room above the drop, but also let in loads of light. I've mocked it up - such a good idea!

Yes OP. Looks gorgeous