Buying a house with no survey.

[Sean2001]

We're buying a house all cash (including the sale of the house we're selling).

The house we're buying is solid and perfect. The owners have lived there 18 years. It looks strong and fine.

Are we mad to not have a survey?

And if you think we are - which kind of survey should we have done?

I’m now living in the fifth house I’ve bought during my lifetime. For the others the mortgage company did their valuation survey and that was it. No further survey but we paid our builder to come and have a good look before we committed. We bought with our eyes open with a good understanding of what work might be needed.

This last house will probably be my last and for peace of mind I had a survey. Complete waste of £600+. Failed to point out leak in roof though staining visible. Failed to notice water ingress round window though paint was flaking. Failed to comment on central heating not working. Failed to comment on rotten window frame. Failed to notice or comment on communal drains etc etc.

Never had a survey and bought many times as a cash buyer. Always got offers accepted if I noticed anything which looked like it needed attention/money spent so was prepared to deal with anything that came up as they needed doing up.

I was told by a chartered surveyor to take a good builder round instead. Also I knew the areas well, re: ground movements, historic events/bombing etc. and have eyes in my head and a knowledge of what building practices and materials were used in which eras. Also what problems any areas may have had.

All been good so far, no unexpected problems.

When I did need a mortgage I had to pay for a structural engineer to come and tell me a beam had twisted thus causing a [cosmetic] crack in a part of a wall....which I could already see for myself what had happened but mortgage co wanted reassurance. [Some polyfilla fixed it!] So that was a waste of my money.

If I were buying again I would do an electrical check and a roof check, both by specialist trades.

My full and expensive survey was mostly full of ‘we recommend inspection by a qualified…’ Loads of things were missed, including a leaking roof!

So I would have only a minimum basic survey but get specialist trades/builder in, whether the house was old or new.

There is only one survey worth getting, and that is a full structural survey done by a competent and experienced surveyor.
They can help you avoid the most expensive mistake of your life.
Often you can use the survey to negotiate money off, so they easily pay for themselves. Also even if the property is basically sound, they are useful for giving an indication of when and where you will need to spend money on maintenance in the future, so God to for planning finances etc.

@Sean2001

Ok - we won't do it. Thank you for your advice.

Are there different levels of survey? Or is it just a full structural survey we should go for? How much would that cost roughly?

Also when is good/bad for the house being last rewired? Do they need to be rewired regularly?

Thank you

Which surveys are which: www.rics.org/globalassets/rics-website/media/upholding-professional-standards/sector-standards/home-survey--2021/helping-you-choose-the-right-survey.pdf

I wouldn't buy any house without a survey. We gave up on one house because of a survey, and I'm glad we did.

Mostly they haven't found anything we hadn't noticed, as we're experienced, but its for the stuff we don't know or might not realise the significance of that we always have one. And with the top level surveys, you can ask them, in addition to the survey, to look at specific things you've noted on your viewing for a more detailed and informed report. One thing we noted turned out to be nothing significant but it was just something we hadn't seen before. Surveyors also know the area, if you're careful who you choose, and can give you background warnings about things to check with your solicitor.

We've had some corkers, though, especially informal over-the-phone additional stuff, like 'I don't think it's rising damp, I think it's rising sewage....' and 'they shampooed the carpets the day before the survey, from which I conclude there is damp but they are trying to cover it up on the advice of some bloke from the pub'.

We paid for a full structural survey for an old house with a double storey extension at the rear. We only lived there 18 months and encountered no major problems.

However, the next owners had to move out of the house because the extension had not been tied into the main house and was separating. Also, the previous owners had knocked down a load bearing wall and this was causing major problems.

Neither of these problems was flagged up in our survey which we gave to our buyers. We could not take any action as we had left the property and our poor buyers couldn't as it wasn't their survey.

So no, that survey was not worth the paper it was written on.

@Buddywoo

We paid for a full structural survey for an old house with a double storey extension at the rear. We only lived there 18 months and encountered no major problems.

However, the next owners had to move out of the house because the extension had not been tied into the main house and was separating. Also, the previous owners had knocked down a load bearing wall and this was causing major problems.

Neither of these problems was flagged up in our survey which we gave to our buyers. We could not take any action as we had left the property and our poor buyers couldn't as it wasn't their survey.

So no, that survey was not worth the paper it was written on.

Of course it was worth the paper it was written on. Had you still been there and had those problems, you could have sued the surveyor. The fact it was no use to your buyers is irrelevant- they didn't order it. If anything, it's an example of why you should always get your OWN survey done, not why you shouldn't have one. Anyone not having one would have been in as bad a position as your buyers, and far worse than you would have been. Your example is like saying insurance isn't worth the money because your insurer didn't cover someone else who had no policy with them.

I would always have a survey done, but you need to exercise some caution. Surveyors often opine without knowledge. Ours (on this purchase) glibly suggested we should get an electrical survey, based on the age of the house (he had no idea about the age of the wiring).

But a proper electrical survey is quite intrusive, and it would be perfectly within the rights of the seller to say, "No, you are not removing light fittings and digging around behind sockets, or channelling out walls, until we've exchanged and you are responsible for fixing it." So, I could have paid for an electrical survey in advance of exchange, which couldn't be completed, and which told me nothing. Or I could have paid for a full survey after exchange, which had no impact on the price or my decision.

We decided we wanted the house and if we needed to pay a few grand for a rewire, fine, it wasn't going to change our decision. A decade on, the electrics are all fine - we've added lights and sockets, no problem and we will upgrade the fuseboard when (if) we change the kitchen.

But I would always want advice on structural issues, damp, - I'm not sure that a survey even identifies important stuff like the state of the roof (they don't climb up and inspect, do they?) or drains.

Unless it is a full structural most other surveys are a complete waste of time and arse covering exercise.

Have a good look yourself will be just as useful.

You should definitely do it - I was sale agreed on a great looking house but survey picked up significant structural issues re extension and new flooring, so I pulled out. It went sale agreed 2 more times with the sales falling through till some unfortunate bought it and the nightmare of reconstruction which was needed.
It was 20 years ago and the €200 for survey still my Best Buy ever.

@Tightwad2020

I would always have a survey done, but you need to exercise some caution. Surveyors often opine without knowledge. Ours (on this purchase) glibly suggested we should get an electrical survey, based on the age of the house (he had no idea about the age of the wiring).

But a proper electrical survey is quite intrusive, and it would be perfectly within the rights of the seller to say, "No, you are not removing light fittings and digging around behind sockets, or channelling out walls, until we've exchanged and you are responsible for fixing it." So, I could have paid for an electrical survey in advance of exchange, which couldn't be completed, and which told me nothing. Or I could have paid for a full survey after exchange, which had no impact on the price or my decision.

We decided we wanted the house and if we needed to pay a few grand for a rewire, fine, it wasn't going to change our decision. A decade on, the electrics are all fine - we've added lights and sockets, no problem and we will upgrade the fuseboard when (if) we change the kitchen.

But I would always want advice on structural issues, damp, - I'm not sure that a survey even identifies important stuff like the state of the roof (they don't climb up and inspect, do they?) or drains.

????A normal pre-sale electrical survey is no problem at all. They check the wiring to a few sockets and switches, which they put back as before, look over the consumer unit, etc. I have never, ever heard of one where they want to dig out wiring from walls. They check the condition of the insulation of the wiring by other means, they have a gadget for it (I forget its name). They also tell you a lot. Ours found all the things that were iffy, including some dodgy wiring to a built-in microwave, and to this day I don't know how he worked out it was wrong as it was all buried behind the units (when we ripped the kitchen out he was exactly right about what had been done- it had been wrongly spurred off the cooker circuit). Finding after you buy that a house needs a rewire is not necessarily a small thing. Our rewire (which involved moving the consumer unit) cost well over 8 grand. When we have completed it by doing the garage, it will be more like 10 grand. Fortunately our electrical survey meant we were able to allow for it in our offer.

I'm only going on the advice of two different electricians that I asked at the time, and online forums. I also asked the surveyor on what evidence he had based his view, and he said he was just being cautious and had no evidence, as he hadn't any experience in the area.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the wiring, as we know from having electricians in at various points to add in lights and additional sockets. The kitchen (which I guess is where a lot of problems can arise) had been redone two years before we bought.

Glad your survey and purchase worked out well. Glad our (lack of electrical survey and) purchase did too!