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Smallish extension or knock through?

24 replies

Yazoop · 26/09/2021 13:37

I'm modernising a nice, but slightly shabby, 1930s 3-bed terrace with my husband - the fairly standard thirties layout with a very small galley kitchen, but relatively spacious and bright living room and reception room (as attached).

We've just spent 15k on redoing the bathroom (to a v high standard) and changing the boiler to a combi. While we need to decorate all rooms in the house, and luckily the electrics are not too old / don't need to be redone and not any big issues to deal with per the survey (we need to change the downpipes outside and other bits but no big work that we are aware of currently).

We have a budget of up to 100k to do all of our immediate work over the next year or so. We had assumed we'd do a rear extension at the back and create a large kitchen diner. The kitchen is the one thing that is difficult to live with - as really tiny and badly laid out - so we'd like to get this done relatively soon if we can (but know it is difficult at the moment).

But we've been revisiting this assumption that an extension is necessarily the right way forward - given how much costs are spiralling at the moment. We are in London (outer zones) and it seems prices are around £3k per sq metre without kitchen and costs keep on rising. It may take most or all of our 100k to do the downstairs extension with a half-decent kitchen. That seems ludicrous for what we want and we wouldn't make that money back in the short term (other houses on the street with basic extension plus loft conversion are going for about 100k more than we paid for ours - with better spec, perhaps 150k more).

We could alternatively do a knock through kitchen and reception and make a kitchen/diner that way. We've got a small bricked toilet outhouse joined to our kitchen that could potentially be transformed into a utility for a washing machine and dryer (would need some work / insulation etc to meet regs) and space to have a small downstairs loo under the stairs. I'm guessing (although not costed) that we could do this for under / around half of what it would cost for an extension. If this is the case, I'm struggling to think what the extension really gives us for the extra money other than a more spacious kitchen. Is that worth it?

We are not planning on moving anytime soon - at least a 5-10 year house - but we've not had children yet and priorities/circumstances can change (we're hoping to have one or two children over next few years). We'd like to do a nice master bedroom loft conversion with ensuite in a few years' time but not a priority right now. If we can keep our spending down, we could do a lot more with that money - overpay mortgage, spend on nicer materials/furniture/kitchen, or invest. So we want to make sure we don't just do the extension because it is the "done" thing to do for these properties.

Is an extension really that much better than knocking through the wall between the kitchen and reception and making a smaller (but still heaps better than it currently is!) kitchen/diner? Any one made a similar decision and how did it go? Any ideas on cost for knock through and other modifications?

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Yazoop · 26/09/2021 13:39

Sorry - with floorpan attached!

Smallish extension or knock through?
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RandomMess · 26/09/2021 13:40

I would just knock through. This isn't your forever home and having DC is VERY expensive when you factor in not working/paying for childcare.

RandomMess · 26/09/2021 13:44

Also you could consider leaning the toilet where it and have washing machine under the stairs - different layouts are worth considering.

Creating a toilet and utility in the corner where the WC already is - easy plumbing.

Enter kitchen/diner from the hallway earlier and use cupboard under the stairs as part of kitchen/diner or a walk in pantry.

Keep the doors between diner and lounge - more flexibility.

Yazoop · 26/09/2021 13:50

Thanks, @RandomMess. That makes sense too - I was thinking it would be better to keep the toilet slightly further from the kitchen but there wouldn't be much difference in reality (as the stairs are next to the kitchen anyway)! Definitely something to think about.

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LeavesOffTheCactus · 26/09/2021 14:29

Your ground floor is the exact same size and layout as the house I moved into when my dc1 was weeks old.

We’re moving out tomorrow (3 years later) - we just outgrew it quicker than anticipated and I have spent most of the last 3 years wanting to escape the pram, toys etc that I’m surrounded by. Our big problem is lack of storage rather than space per se.

So I’d guess that your house is more of a 2-5 years from when you have kids house and therefore would save my £100k for my future home. I’d knock through and if possible spend a bit thinking of really good storage solutions.

Yazoop · 26/09/2021 15:34

Thanks @LeavesOffTheCactus. We'd expected to get a bit longer out of the house (and the location and area is ideal for lots of reasons). Food for thought! And storage is always so important, but so difficult...

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RandomMess · 26/09/2021 15:43

It's all relative we had 4 DC in a 60s terrace with a floor plan size of 22 x 18'

What you can't do is have lots of "stuff" the having lots of large toys is only for a few years and you just rotate and limit what you have.

Board out your loft. Think about what clothes you really need etc.

Puffthemagicdragongoestobed · 26/09/2021 15:50

We are on the outer fringes of London too and had a budget of about £110k pre-pandemic for building works on our 1930s semi. Quotes for a 4x7 metres rear extension came in at about 80-100k, not factoring in VAT, the cost of a new kitchen, roof lights or sliding doors. So the final cost would have probably been north of £130k. Not factoring in the prices rises since the pandemic.
We just couldn't afford what we wanted, but decided to use our budget to knock through and then extend into the loft. I think a knock through is a really good compromise as you still get a live-in kitchen, just not as spacious as an extension though..

Yazoop · 26/09/2021 16:24

Thanks @RandomMess - I think you're right, you need to be strict on how you rotate and accumulate stuff. We're trying to be more sustainable anyway (good for the planet and the pocket...) but I know that is more difficult with young kids!

@Puffthemagicdragongoestobed thanks, that's really useful to know and even worse than I'd thought it would be (I think our extension would be a little smaller but not by that much, maybe 3x6). That is an insane amount without factoring in a kitchen! Good to know the knock through seems to be a workable solution. One great thing about 1930s houses is they have nice square layouts that make knocking through / reconfiguration relatively straightforward.

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RandomMess · 26/09/2021 16:33

Tall high storage all the way! IKEA trofast was a saviour.

In the wardrobes we had a top and lower hanging rails for the kids clothes. If you was most days you don't need a lot of clothes. We had built in wardrobes again we had one rail near the ceiling for DH tops and one underneath for my stuff and just another one with shelves above for my dresses.

Stored stuff under the cots and they were in continental cots/cot beds until they were probably 5.

We bought 2nd hand and sold it on. Just kept the really popular toys that they loved.

Toy box was a coffee table in the evenings. Small furniture, shelving, DH got rid of his CD collection all sorts of minimalism went on.

In your kitchen get those super wide drawers. More storage than cupboards.

Resilience · 26/09/2021 16:43

Knock through. By the time you're wishing you had a separate room for the older DC you're yet to have, things will have changed and you'll have a lot more options to choose from.
Invest in good storage solutions. Add a porch or canopy and outdoor storage for your pushchair. I did this because I didn't have enough room inside. Worked fine. Yes it was a bit annoying if DC asleep but if you buy a 'system' where the carrier itself detaches, you don't even lose that option.

Yazoop · 27/09/2021 07:52

Thanks @RandomMess and @Resilience - really great storage tips!

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OakPine · 27/09/2021 09:36

I would knock through and add a large opening to the garden with bifold/crittal doors.
The reason is that this might prove to be enough space for you, will be the cheapest now, and will open up to your garden.

I've done something similar. If you open up the wall with big doors, then use the same colour of flooring inside as the outside paving/decking/flagstones and put furniture on the terrace outside then your brain visually sees another "room" out there and it kind of tricks you into thinking your house is bigger than it is.

In several years time if you still want to stay then you can leave the kitchen diner in the "middle" part of the house, and utilise the big opening to open it right out with a new extension and further living area.
So from front to back then, you'd then have "front facing living" then "dining kitchen" then "garden facing living room".

Yazoop · 27/09/2021 12:38

Thanks, @OakPine! That’s really useful, definitely want to make the inside connect more with what could be nice garden (and one plus from not extending is that we don’t lose any of it!)

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Caroline147 · 27/09/2021 13:43

We’re in the exact same position with similar budget (although we do need electrics done unfortunately) and we decided against the extension after getting some quotes. I’ve now progressed quite far with kitchen planning based on knock-through only and it’s going to be a decent-sized kitchen/diner! Using smart kitchen units / a peninsula is making a big difference.

Our thinking was that we could always add a garden room in a few years to get an extra room if we need it.

We’re also removing our chimney breast, which is giving us some extra space in the kitchen/diner- don’t know if that’s an option for you?

It is absolutely ridiculous that you can’t afford a small extension within such massive budgets anymore though!

Calmdown14 · 27/09/2021 19:50

I'd knock through. We had a similar debate (although we already had a small extension).
It has transformed the house without major structural work.
Think carefully about every bit of space.
If you lost the kitchen door you could have a great u shape. May also give you extra hallway space for a big storage cupboards. Do you need the double doors to the front room? Again would allow you to arrange storage and furniture better.
I would plan so you can fit a small sofa/ corner into the back room. As the kids get bigger having two seating zones is great.
Extending would give you a dark middle room.

Yazoop · 27/09/2021 21:13

@Caroline147 It is mad, isn't it! And it doesn't seem to have reduced the demand, either (at least round my way!). On the fire breast, that is definitely one to consider, although I do like having the fireplace there.

@Calmdown14 Good to hear you were able to do similar. I think keeping the doors to the front room would give us the best of both worlds in having the flow of open plan with the ability to shut the doors when we want to! But we'll have to consider all options on how to best use the space.

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Thecazelets · 28/09/2021 09:03

If you haven't already seen it Apartment Apothecary opted for a knock through on her similar house. I think it's a lovely use of the space for a far lower cost than an extension.

I'd be quite wary of getting into really major building works if it can be avoided at the moment; prices really do seem to have gone a bit mad, plus all the supply issues.

www.apartmentapothecary.com/knocking-down-walls-to-create-an-open-plan-living-space/

SquareYellow · 28/09/2021 09:15

Knock through, but have a tiny extension to make the outside toilet one utility room with a toilet in it. As long as it has one sink and toilet, you don’t need a separate room for the washing machine etc. But in bi folds or sliding. The hallway either incorporate or get some hardcore storage built in.

Smallish extension or knock through?
SquareYellow · 28/09/2021 09:33

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Smallish extension or knock through?
Brollywasntneededafterall · 28/09/2021 09:38

Ah op you take me back!!
I wanted to knock through. Dh wasn't keen. I had mentioned it to builder ndn. He arrived one tea time carrying a huge sledgehammer.. Asked which wall I wanted shifting and started on it!! Dh stood there mouth open saying nothing!!
Grin

Yazoop · 29/09/2021 08:30

Thanks @Thecazelets, yes I have seen her website. It is very inspiring! A really beautiful and calm space.

@SquareYellow thank you, really like that floor plan and potential for a mini extension of the toilet to have a proper utility area!

@Brollywasntneededafterall haha! I bet neither of you were expecting that but I guess it got the job done!

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Yazoop · 29/09/2021 11:34

I wouldn’t be so sure. I was shocked this morning to see a three-bed terrace in Walthamstow (near the village, admittedly) listed for £1.1m… the world has gone mad!

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Yazoop · 29/09/2021 11:34

Sorry, wrong thread!

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