Vendors refusing to move out! Help!

[Fabsco]

Dear all,

I hope you're all doing well. I came here to share our house buying story and see if you could perhaps give us some advice. We got sale agreed on a house back in May and trusted that our vendors were actively looking for a place to buy since then. We lived in rented accommodation and agreed with our landlord a moving date at the end of August, which would give us (in our view) plenty of time to move into our new house.

The warning bells came when we got the contract and there was no completion date on it; as it transpired our vendors were only doing a valuation on a house that they intended to buy in August. We tried to extend our rental contract with our landlord but, at that point, he had already secured new tenants moving in September. We agreed to rent an AirBnB and put our furniture in a storage as the estate agent promised that the deal would be done as quickly as possible. We spent a couple of thousands in this process but were happy to do it if it meant that we were going to keep the deal.

Much to our surprise, the estate agent now phoned us to say that the sale two houses down the chain fell through and nobody is willing to go into rented accommodation to keep the chain going. Our vendors said that they would understand if we walked away, which is mad when we think that we did everything we could from our end and they are not willing to compromise one bit. We asked the estate agent if they could perhaps go into rented accommodation to share a bit of the burden with us, and she said that they couldn't because they have a dog. It blows my mind that they are risking losing the sale of their house because they couldn't be bothered looking for rental accommodation that accepts pets? They might be bluffing, but it blew my mind their complete disregard for us in saying that they are happy for us to walk away.

I phoned the estate agent to advise that we are looking for other houses to see if the deal can be done quicker and she simply said: 'okay, just let me know, and I will advise the vendors to put the house back on the market' and hung up. What is wrong with people?! Would you walk away in that case? Thank you so much for your help and advice with this!

Perhaps your mistake was telling the EA that you were looking for another property. I would have done that anyway and only pulled out of the first sale when I was much further down the line with another purchase.

Can you get back to the EA and ask them to reinstate your offer and take the house back off the market?

@Warmduscher Thank you for your response, and apologies as I think I wasn't clear in my message. The house is still sale agreed for us, but I told her that we are considering other options. We haven't walked away yet, but are worried that the whole chain is comfortable for us to be paying thousands of pounds in temporary accommodation and storage, which we were happy to do for a couple of weeks, but not for months on end.

The estate agent has given us provisional dates that we unrealistic in hindsight, and led us to believe that everything was working towards a completion date in August. Of course they won't admit that they misled us and are putting pressure on us to walk away, so that they can buy time with the vendor. Disappointing to say the least.

Thank you for your response and good luck with everything!

OP this is how it is with chains. The whole thing is uncertain until you’ve exchanged contracts. Who advised you to give notice on your rental? Hindsight’s a fine thing etc etc but it would’ve been better for you to wait until you’d exchanged contracts on your purchase before giving notice on your rental. You might’ve had an overlap of two or three weeks (the house you’d bought and the place you rent) but you wouldn’t have had storage costs nor the uncertainty of where to live while the purchase goes through.

Anyway you are where you are. Do you want to buy this house? Keep pushing your solicitor. If you don’t then start looking for another.

Did she mean ‘just let me know if you do find anywhere’?

The EA is probably exasperated and fed up as well

I would call and clarify that your offer remains in the table until you state otherwise.

But it’s tricky because if you do drop out your vendor will want a new buyer ASAP so that they are in a strong buying position, so why would they waste marketing time if you are looking elsewhere?

Difficult times.

Your solicitor should really have advised you not to give notice on your rental-that’s so risky. Chains break down all the time. Also if your vendors hadn’t found a place to buy in May, why on earth would you give notice on your place?

As far as your vendors go, the rental market is really difficult right now, short term ones are impossible to find and finding dog friendly properties is hard, we’ve been in a similar position recently and I don’t blame them for not wanting to do this. I hope it gets sorted out quickly for you though.

OP this is a tough situation to be in but you were naive to hand in your notice on your rental before exchange has happened. May to August is only 3 months and that is the average property transaction time for a straightforward conveyance. Chains can and do fall apart and no one is under any obligation to break the chain. Rentals are hard come by at the moment, especially if they have pets.

[quote Fabsco]@Warmduscher Thank you for your response, and apologies as I think I wasn't clear in my message. The house is still sale agreed for us, but I told her that we are considering other options. We haven't walked away yet, but are worried that the whole chain is comfortable for us to be paying thousands of pounds in temporary accommodation and storage, which we were happy to do for a couple of weeks, but not for months on end.

The estate agent has given us provisional dates that we unrealistic in hindsight, and led us to believe that everything was working towards a completion date in August. Of course they won't admit that they misled us and are putting pressure on us to walk away, so that they can buy time with the vendor. Disappointing to say the least.

Thank you for your response and good luck with everything![/quote]
The chain won't care if you're in rented/paying thousands of pounds. In the nicest way, your circumstances aren't their problem/concern. This happens with a chain sometimes.

You don't usually agree a binding completion date until you're ready to exchange contracts in England and Wales. You might discuss one but it can't be guaranteed.

Sorry you're in this situation, it really sucks. But it's incredibly common. Nobody else in the chain will care. Everyone in the chain is looking out for their own interests, and it's naive to expect otherwise. So many chains collapse all the time because one transaction falls through.

Next time you'll know now to give notice until exchange. Most people won't even order the survey and searches until the chain is complete. You might also consider buyers insurance next time.

I've had a month between exchange and completion once to allow for a buyer further down the chain to give notice on a rental property - I also think you were overly optimistic to hand in your notice on your current place when you had no dates fixed or contracts signed.

As PP have said, this happens with chains. Unfair to blame your vendors EA for a sale falling through further down the chain!

It must be frustrating for you to be in a rental now and unable to see how this is going to be resolved. I would start looking at other properties as well as the one you've offered on but there's probably no quick fix unfortunately. I hope it all works out for you soon.

@NameChangedForAChange Thank you for your response. We told the estate agent that we were giving notice on our apartment and he simply said that he was going to note the information down. We are now dealing with a different estate agent, who tells us that we were unaware that we were moving out of our rental accommodation. Unfortunately it is all smoke and mirrors with EAs. I remember that the estate agent told us at the viewing that the vendors already had a place to move to, which could be true at the time, but we were definitely misled by them to believe that they were ready to move out.

Our solicitor is a family friend and, unfortunately, doesn't have our case as his priority. He is highly experienced and didn't even consider to tell us to hold on to our apartment when the contract arrived with no completion date. We want to buy this house because we spent around six months doing house viewings, but feel that we might need a change of direction as everybody else is quite comfortable where they are.

Thank you for your response! Much appreciated!

The estate agent doesn’t work for you. They are looking after the interests of their client.

Sorry but I think you're being really naive here. Why would the sellers go into rented if they don't want to? Renting is a massive hassle - they might find anywhere and prices shoot up whilst renting. The hassle of moving twice plus the cost of renting is extortionate. You're doing the best thing by looking at other houses but patience is the key to house buying & selling it's a very very frustrating process. Pp was right everybody is looking after their own interests.

It sounds awful but you were a little niave giving notice to move out of your rental until you had a firm date.

The contract is always blank when you sign it as the completion date is inserted at the point of exchange by the solicitors. Dates can’t be agreed until everyone is ready to go. We always tell people that things can go wrong and don’t hand in notice on rentals or book removals etc until after exchange. The market has been crazy and everything is taking longer. We have also noticed a lot more people are withdrawing from the sale than is usual.

@EdgeOfTheSky

Did she mean ‘just let me know if you do find anywhere’?

The EA is probably exasperated and fed up as well

I would call and clarify that your offer remains in the table until you state otherwise.

But it’s tricky because if you do drop out your vendor will want a new buyer ASAP so that they are in a strong buying position, so why would they waste marketing time if you are looking elsewhere?

Difficult times.

@EdgeOfTheSky Yes, that's what she meant. We are not sure what has happened on the vendors' end, but there was definitely a conversation about them having a place to go to, and then in August they were doing a valuation on a house.

I understand that she is stressed out, but it would have been courteous to let us know what was happening with the chain. At the end of July, both parties signed contracts but there was no agreement on a completion date - that's when we first heard that they were back on the house market. I get the game of withholding the information so that we don't walk away too soon, but they knew that we were working towards moving out and didn't even bother to tell us that the vendors were still searching for a place to move to.

I'm really sorry that you are in this position but this happens frequently with chains I'm afraid.

You really should not have given notice on your rental until you had exchanged contracts. This is what normally happens with people renting. Your solicitor should have made this very clear to you, irrespective of whether they are a family friend or not.

And yes the Estate Agent works for the vendor.

There have been some very big and expensive lessons learnt here and I really do feel for you, but honestly just because you have made the mistake of giving up your rental and going into a short term rental it doesn't mean that others up the chain are going to do the same as it puts them into a precarious position as you yourselves are.

At the crux of this is if renting never ever give notice until after exchange (with set completion date). But in turn this then can mean that for a number of months you are paying both rent and a mortgage on the new property.

Unfortunately you have been extremely badly advised by your solicitor to the extent of not advised at all. Really this is where you anger should be directed but it is pointless to do so.

You have no time-frame on this. It could be months. In your shoes, I would look for a proper rental (not Airbnb) with a 6 month break clause and then start looking at other properties but keep your offer on the table for this one. You can't stay in Airbnb indefinitely! Yes, it is annoying and has cost you a great deal of money but you need to think about worst case scenario.

Not helpful for you now, but we only gave notice after we had exchanged. We had an overlap of 4 weeks after completion but the wasted rent was worth it for us to provide security and as we were moving with a baby. No way we were packing up our rental flat in the morning, getting the keys and moving in that afternoon, cleaning everything and handing back rental flat on the same day and looking after a 10 month old!

The house buying system is messy in England and it sounds like you don't have a good handle on it. As others have said, you were naive to give notice. Contracts never have a completion date when you sign as nothing is certain until the contracts are exchanged. Chains fall apart and sales collapse all the time.

At the end of July, both parties signed contracts but there was no agreement on a completion date

Your (family friend) solicitor is well at fault here. No contract should be signed without a completion date! Presumably you haven't actually exchanged contracts then.

Sad for you - especially as you are footing the bill for temp accomodation.

Contracts never have a completion date when you sign as nothing is certain until the contracts are exchanged.

I have never signed a contract without having a completion date.

The confusion about signing contracts without a date:

Often each party signs the contracts without dates and lodges them with their solicitors. Once the everyone is ready to go the completion date is inserted into the contract by the solicitors and the previously signed contracts are exchanged. With the completion date as part of that contract. Also any revisions of price, conditions , retentions that have been negotiated.

The early signing is just so that the solicitors have the paperwork ready.

LOL, we signed the contracts in December but exchanged in March.

At the end of July, both parties signed contracts but there was no agreement on a completion date

What was this?
Have you signed the contracts to exchange in advance but they’re sitting with your solicitor, signed in advance to speed things up?

Typically you wouldn’t be able to exchange without a completion date, unless your solicitors have made a special arrangement (like a long stop date, usually used for new builds, etc).

If you haven’t exchanged, sadly, none of this is binding yet… and to be honest, we’re buying and selling right now, and I wouldn’t expect anyone to go into rented. The costs have shot up, it’s almost October when the housing market tends to start to go quiet until next Spring, and house prices are still rising. There’s so much risk of getting stuck somewhere… it’s not what you want to hear, especially as you’ve taken that risk, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect anyone else to, especially further down the line.

Do you know where they are with the move now? Have they got a mortgage offer etc? Is there now a chain above them?

@sunshinesupermum

Contracts never have a completion date when you sign as nothing is certain until the contracts are exchanged.

I have never signed a contract without having a completion date.

I think you are confusing signing contracts with exchanging contracts.

It is perfectly normal for the contract to be signed before a completion date is agreed, the solicitor adds the completion date in later. It is not exactly unusual for the contract to be signed weeks before the actual exchange takes place.

Sorry OP, but you have been incredibly naive about the house buying process in England.

No-one who owns a property for sale is going to willingly move into rented accommodation to clinch a sale, unless they struggled to get offers. If the sale falls though, you put it back on the market and await the next buyer.

Secondly, the estate agent is working for the Vendors, not you. They will tell you what you want to hear to secure the sale incl. that it will only take 4-8 weeks whatever, from the date you put your offer in. In most cases even without a long chain, this is hugely optimistic.

If you're in rented accommodation, ideally you should only give notice once you have an agreed completion date. Obviously tricky if you have a long lease. But that's your problem to solve.

I hope you get your house eventually but you need to understand that you're a small fish in this pond with very little bargaining power.