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Original poster

Please help me choose a flat in London: 1 bed ex-council flat in Camden, London or 2 bed new build in Ware, Herts

98 replies

ldnflatbuyer2021 · 17/09/2021 17:28

Hi,

I am starting to go insane trying to make one of bigger decisions in my life !

I will be staying in London for at least 2-4 years - and will either sell the flat or keep it rented while likely moving abroad or renting somewhere else.
So basically my most important thing is trying to keep value for at least the short-term (next 2-3 years) !

After a lot of viewings, my two main options are:

  1. Ex-council 1 bed flat in central Camden (small, well maintained block) - £385 000

PROs:

  • excellent, excellent location
  • seems like flats in this development have sold previously for much higher prices meaning this is a good price point - also compared to other nearby properties
  • low ground rent / service charges
  • lively area with lost of things to do

CONs:

  • whilst good sized overall (>45 sq.m.), it's still somewhat small for more than 2 adults and one very small baby
  • needs a lease extension soon (likely costing £10k in total)
  • council as leaseholder - which can supposedly be problematic with big repairs
  • half of other flats are council tenants
  • I don't know if the city center exodus has stopped or will keep going?
  1. Newish build 2 bed flat in Ware, Hertfordshire (smaller block) - £315 000

PROs:

  • everything is new
  • allocated parking - which you could perhaps rent out
  • very high demand in the area at the moment due to everyone moving to suburbs
  • about 40% cheaper per sq.m. than the 1 bed flat in Camden

CONs:

  • ground rent increase every 5 years with RPI - will go over £250
  • bad management company - all bad reviews, relatively high service charge for such a new block
  • bad lease terms such as restrictions like no dogs, license to have a cat
  • flat could be of shoddy quality, I've seen issues with it mentioned by others
OP posts:
Embracelife · 17/09/2021 22:36

Is this the ware flat?
www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/59489032/

Pretty small
No garden
Commute to London if you working g there
Do you have connections to ware?

gibletjane · 17/09/2021 22:37

I think flats have a bit more potential in the short term, given how houses have grown 10-20% over the last year but flats have remained static even though the demand in home counties around London is still incredible.

I think it's highly unlikely with increased taxes & cost of living most London flats will go up much in 2 yrs. 5 yrs plus then yes but we can agree to disagree.

Embracelife · 17/09/2021 22:41

www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/55528840/

Camden
Access to a communal garden
Better location
Separate kitchen you can shut door on washing machines etc

earsup · 17/09/2021 22:48

mmm.check if flat estate is due the 5 year cycle of big works....you could get hit for a big bill...new windows or ground works even if you dont need the windows...still gotta pay even if you refuse them etc...friend got stung by this...

TedMullins · 17/09/2021 22:50

If it’s ex council with deck access and needs a lease extension you’re unlikely to find a lender willing to offer a mortgage on it. Banks do not like either of these things.

The Ware one sounds dodgy too if it’s already lost value, I wouldn’t assume it would go up.

Why only those two? There are hundreds more options in and around London and areas that are still in London but have a quieter, leafier feel, and are more affordable.

20questions · 17/09/2021 22:55

@ldnflatbuyer2021
In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to even consider this property. I can actually seeing it devaluing over time. There are so many red flags screaming out..
Research more about these types of properties/leases. Ask for a copy of the full lease and obligations before you spend one penny on legals. (Bet you won't be given it!)
Would you be the first owner of the property? Do you know how much the service charges are? They will increase yearly with possibly little or no service.
Incidentally sometimes rpi can be worse in the long term than doubling ground rents.
There are huge battles going on with this issue at the moment. The CMA are on the case but could take years to resolve the complex leases that developers are selling/have sold.

EvenRosesHaveThorns · 17/09/2021 22:57

'get rid of council freeholder' well, aren't you charming

midlifecrash · 17/09/2021 22:59

Just googled ware it isn’t in London so Camden wins by default. Plus bad management company isn’t that basically a housing red flag

Limmers14 · 17/09/2021 23:12

Echoing other posters with “why Ware?” There are very few shops there. It’s definitely got more of a service based commuter culture with bars and restaurants. Hertford is a 10 minute drive so you’ll need a car. The Greater Anglia line can also be very unreliable. If you are commuting to London, you can expect to fight for seat at Ware as the train starts at Hertford and is very full in the morning, or at least it used to be. It’s also a branch line so there’s always work going on and the branch line is cut first.

I wouldn’t pick either and would continue searching

Original poster
ldnflatbuyer2021 · 17/09/2021 23:13

@Embracelife - thank you for the suggestion of Camden one - it looks very nice.

@EvenRosesHaveThorns - I mean councils are not too bad but they are well known to inflate charges as they mainly work with big contractors. It would be preferable if you had a residents association, as residents pay for the work, that also decides the best contractor or if the work is even needed (which you legally cannot do against a council).
Camden council is an OK council otherwise.

@TedMullins - it is still >85 years and would only need an extension in a couple of years. Also there is no deck access, very small block/estate

@gibletjane - you might be right, especially due to the tax increases

DP works in City, I work in Ware but wouldn't mind commuting to Ware from London via a train as I might change workplace in the future and be London based again.

We actually don't have a child at the moment, might in 2-3 years but not just yet. In the original post I just thought it would be ok to live in a 1 bed with a baby until it's perhaps 2,3 years old.

OP posts:
HalzTangz · 17/09/2021 23:45

If you are single or just a couple go for the Camden flat.

If you have a child or plan to have a child before going abroad take the Hertfordshire flat.

HalzTangz · 17/09/2021 23:49

Not in London, but we have two flats we rent out and also a house. We get more yeild from the house than we get from both flats clubbed together. Flats don't always bring in the most money

HalleLouja · 18/09/2021 04:38

If you are looking at Ware, I would choose Hertford. There is definitely more going on there. Plus obviously still an easy commute for you.

rattlemehearties · 18/09/2021 04:56

I just thought it would be ok to live in a 1 bed with a baby until it's perhaps 2,3 years old.

Probably true - so stay in central London and enjoy life pre kids! We moved from North to South London when we had a baby though which got us far more space for the money. An alternative to consider.

StColumbofNavron · 18/09/2021 08:16

If you don’t have a baby yet then I think Camden. The commute would be in the opposite ‘rush’ direction and like you say, you may end up working in London anyway. Camden is a great place and so close to so many things.

cheesyunyin · 18/09/2021 08:47

If you havr a baby then a one bed flat seems totally inappropriate to me

Why Ware?

For that money you can surely get a 2/3 bed house somewhere in Herts?

cheesyunyin · 18/09/2021 09:06

I thought it would be ok to live in a 1 bed with a baby until it's perhaps 2,3 years old.

No way!

Embracelife · 18/09/2021 11:34

We actually don't have a child at the moment, might in 2-3 years but not just yet. In the original post I just thought it would be ok to live in a 1 bed with a baby until it's perhaps 2,3 years old.

Of coursexyou cCAN but will get cramped

eightlivesdown · 18/09/2021 12:01

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

'get rid of council freeholder' well, aren't you charming
It's because council freeholders have a reputation of paying significantly over the odds for repairs / maintenance, and any private leaseholders are required to contribute to the inflated cost.
FleasInMyKnees · 18/09/2021 13:52

If your budget can go to £385k would you consider a house in Ware instead, I wouldn't consider a leasehold flat, you pay charges which could go up.
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/113468123#/?channel=RES_BUY

ChubbyCat · 18/09/2021 16:00

As an ex-camden leaseholder my only advice is avoid avoid avoid

Cyberworrier · 18/09/2021 16:37

Hi OP,

As a pp says, surely there are many many options in between these?
My first flat was in a small council block in Islington. I had a neighbour with learning disabilities who was being exploited by local drug dealers who partied 24 hours a day at points and it was a very stressful experience. I spoke to people on her behalf but it was very intimidating as a single young woman so was unable to intervene directly. Another friend bought in a nice looking small ex council block in Camden and had dealers in the flat below who were nightmare neighbours. I know the vast majority of council tenants are nothing like this- many family members in council housing etc. But I would never buy an ex council flat in london again. (Had another friend who had huge bill for windows a couple of years into owning theirs too).