Underpinned but no documentation

[UnderpinningStress]

We are trying to buy a house and have had a few fall through for various reasons. This one seemed to be progressing well but we have now run into something fairly problematic.

Our survey identified that the house had been underpinned and had several repairs over the years - surveyor thought the work looked to be in order but said we would of course need documentation for all the works.

The sellers are saying they were unaware of any underpinning and they have no documentation at all.

We can get the house insured but will pay a much higher premium and much bigger excess with no date of underpinning and properly signed off works.

We’re waiting to hear back from our solicitor - they have raised lots of enquiries about it but from what we know from the seller via the estate agent they are unlikely to have any of the documentation or information we think we need, both for insurance and for when we come to sell the house on.

Anyone any idea what our options are here? Would you expect the local authority / building control to have information about the previous works?

Anyone...?

How long have they been in the house? If they have been in for a substantial amount of time and they didn't do the work then it might have moved into the 'historic' category.

Insurances companies I have spoken to have a sliding scale over time when it comes to underpinning so it would be worth trying to get a rough date. Whether it was done 5 years ago or 10 or 20 will make a difference.

Sounds like you need to do some more (metaphorical) digging? My house is underpinned, there’s no documentation of the work but previous owner had a specific survey done which suggested it was done in the 60s and explained the cause and why it wouldn’t happen again. We go with an insurance company who are only interested in subsidence in the last 15 years and it isn’t significantly more expensive.

@Allthesefolks - do you mind me asking who you are insured with and what documentation they asked for?

Building regulations apply when doing building work, i.e. underpinning, so I would think that the Local Authority Search would reveal whether there is a Certificate of Structural Adequacy and any other associated documents. Try looking at your local Council's planning portal to see if anything is listed there.

Thanks everyone. So if we had a rough date but no evidence to support it, would insurance companies accept that? Current owners are there about 10 years and have no knowledge of any underpinning but our surveyor said it very definitely has been done.

@IamwhoIsayIam Legal and General

Are you purchasing with the aid of a mortgage? If so, your solicitor will also be acting for them and will report this to them. I wouldn't be surprised if the lender withdrew their mortgage offer without satisfactory documentation in place. I wonder if the vendor didn't bother with a structural survey when they purchased and that's why they know nothing about it.

We are indeed buying with a mortgage. We’ve had a valuation from the bank and all went okay, no issues flagged although it’s quite clear it has had underpinning as there’s a cellar. True though, could become an issue if the solicitor flags it to them. We’ve told our broker and solicitor of course and no-one has raised that an issue but definitely something to check. Yes I think they probably didn’t have a survey when buying.

I heard an underpinned house will be stronger on that side than neighbouring houses, if the work has been done under the supervision of a structural engineer and signed-off properly.

I think you're making more of this than needs be. Nobody goes digging back in the 70s for paperwork. It's irrelevant. Not many of us have a house that hasn't evolved heavily since those days.

I cannot get my head around why people are happy to buy houses with no foundations and are scared of houses with them! Given the stark choice, there is only one answer.

Same with ancient building work. People panic when work as old or older than themselves doesn't have sign off, yet don't even consider that the original house would never have been signed off.

It always seems strange that underpinned houses have more expensive insurance when work has been done to remedy a problem. You would think that neighbouring houses that have not been underpinned and are built on the same type of ground should be the ones with raised insurance.

@homebuyer34

I heard an underpinned house will be stronger on that side than neighbouring houses, if the work has been done under the supervision of a structural engineer and signed-off properly.

That’s the if in this case though - we don’t know if the work was done under such supervision and signed off.

If there is no paperwork and the current owners are unaware of any underpinning, then without digging down to the foundations how can anyone be sure it’s even been done. ? If it had been done in the past then I wouldn’t bother telling the insurance. Seems like a mountain out of a molehill ?

I’m not sure how reinforcing foundations on any house can be seen as a problem.

The house has a cellar and our surveyor could see it had been done.

My worry is that we would get insurance, not say anything about the underpinning and then find that any claim if there was a future problem we needed to make was rejected or problematic in some way?

It’s great to hear that others wouldn’t be overly worried about this though.

How wouid a surveyor know it's been underlined? Did he dig down as that's the only way?

You have to tell insurer about underpinning in our basement.
I don't think there will be a problem. If there is, you have to make a claim. and you have to tell them truth,'

@Remmy123

How wouid a surveyor know it's been underlined? Did he dig down as that's the only way?

There’s a cellar so he could see from there.

{My worry is that we would get insurance, not say anything about the underpinning and then find that any claim if there was a future problem we needed to make was rejected or problematic in some way?}

You have to tell them truth to insurer. If there will be any claim, and you didn't tell them your basement underpinned, your policy will be VOID!!!!
Why not tell them your basement had been underpinned???
You might not claim in the future if there is no issue.
I think you are worried too much.

Hi, I realise it has been a while, but I wanted to see if you resolved the underpinning issue? We are going through a very similar problem. The house we want to buy was underpinned in 1997, there is no documentation and there is no proof that the underpinning was done apart from the word of the vendor. We did a survey, but that came back inconclusive. We are a bit stuck and I wanted to see if you came to a resolution on your issue.

Hi, I just came across this thread when googling underpinning. Jaimistry - have you managed to come to any conclusion? We are in exactly the same position as you…. And a bit lost with it all!!

We are still no clearer on the unpinning situation - there seems to be no historical documentation to support it. We have largely accepted that we probably won't find anything.

We have since spoken to our surveyor and he suggested to us that the house seems structurally sound and there doesn't seem to be ongoing issues with subsidence. That being said, there remains a risk as we can't see what has been done historically. To minimize the risk he further suggested we do a CCTV drain survey, as this can bring to light any issues with leaks ect.

The other option was to put a sum of money in an escrow account and if we did have further issues with the underpinning, the cost would be covered by the money in the account.

Another option to look into is getting an intrusive survey done (this is where they dig up the foundations) - this could be damaging to the house structure, so would proceed with caution - we were advised not to do this, but it is an option if the vendor allows it.

Hope this helps!