Is this boiler installer dodgy? Or am I being too cautious

[Walserwasstrange]

Is this me or is this dodgy? Need to buy a new boiler, so looking for an installer. Some neighbours have used a local independent but mostly for servicing. I spoke to him about the boiler, and he wants me to buy all the materials and have them delivered, and he wants me to pay a 50% labour deposit on top before he starts. This means that could be paying two-thirds of the cost before he even turns up, or be seriously left in the lurch if he doesn’t. The other thing that bothers me is he said he didn’t want a card payment but then said he wanted a card payment for the deposit – which would of course leave no paper trail.

Trying to work out if this is normal, and if not, why he’s asking for payment arrangements that raise red flags? I suppose it could be because I’m a new customer? Or maybe he doesn’t want the job so he’s trying to put me off? The kitchen where the boiler is looks quite scruffy and needs repainting, I was redecorating the year before the pandemic and had a lot of work done upstairs, plastering, painting, hall done, bedrooms done and a new bathroom but then the pandemic interrupted everything. I wondered if that meant he thought I wouldn’t pay? I've never paid so much upfront for other work here or elsewhere.

I'd get two other quotes from other installers before moving forward with this one.
I've paid 50% upfront quite regularly for various works, but it's always been 50% of the total job, not both the materials and labour upfront.

Something else to think about with buying the materials yourself, is what happens if something goes wrong. I'm not familiar with customer trading laws so you might be covered anyway, but if the new boiler breaks in 6 months, could this guy say "well you bought it, I didnt, you're on your own" ? If you buy a boiler from the person who fits it, there might be more security of them coming to fix a problem ?

If you are looking for a gas boiler, check the gas safe register for an authorised installer in your area. If you need an oil boiler, look at the OFTEC register.

As a pp above, get several quotes & check they are like for like & include removal & disposal of old boiler, any necessary filters, certificates, commission of install etc.

Normal is 50% up front by bank transfer & 50% upon completion.

That sounds dodgy. Having a new boiler tomorrow and haven’t paid a penny yet. Will pay when I’m invoiced I would avoid him. Most plumbers could supply a boiler as it’s likely they can order at trade price. Very strange

As long as you get a receipt, it doesnt matter if you pay in cash or by card or by bank transfer.
Plenty of people work in cash. It does not mean they aren't declaring it. It might. But it doesn't affect you. As long as you get a written quote (not an estimate; get a quote) and then get a receipt then that is fine.

Buying materials can be normal too. I've never done that for a boiler though so I would want to check warranty etc.

But get 2 more quotes from other installers.

Thanks Woleb this guy says can only do an estimate includes a thousand pound possible variation, as things might crop up! Although it's only like for like, I'm not moving anything or changing systems, replacing a combi that keeps needing repairs with a new combi.

Ivy48 good to know, I've paid for things when I've been given a receipt as per bathroom, and for some things gone and paid with a builder but never ordered from their supplier direct. So did seem strange. Hope yours goes well. How did you decide on someone?

Coffeebeansgalore thanks for the tip about Gas Safe, I've checked registration on there but forgot they list them by area too. Did look at various other sites but guy I had who made a mess of a repair was a Which trader so not confident that many are that reliable.

Ceebeegee he did mutter something about faults being between me and manufacturers, because I'd have bought everything. And that might be a problem because not always possible to know what's the installer and what's the boiler. So will check on that as suddenly realising that could be a get-out clause if something goes wrong. And yes I could see asking for money towards materials but paying for so much seems odd, as only a day's work so labour isn't a huge risk if he's not buying anything. Also he'd know I'd bought it as from his supplier and so not likely to pull out.

I will try to work out how to find someone reliable to quote. And good to know fixed quotes aren't impossible. I would much prefer that, and to pay by credit card if possible as gives me more protection.

Thanks so much for all your replies, I've had a lot of extra expenses this year and wasn't expecting to replace the boiler too. But looks as if the repair is quite big and no guarantee that won't go wrong again. I hadn't realised how hard it would be to find someone for something so standard.

You’re right to be cautious it’s a mine field. Personally, I’d go with boxt because I’ve seen good reviews. Get some other quotes to compare and settle your mind when deciding.

A £1000 variation on a combi swap is massive, especially as you're supplying the boiler. how much was his estimate if you don't mind sharing?

A combi swap is a days work , as you say. The worst that can happen is that the flue position needs changing (a bit of bricking up ) and maybe worse case a gas pipe upgrade if your gas pipe is undersized. Surely that'll be nowhere near £1000 extra?

Have a look at Boxt, they do online quotes , as well as another couple of independents. :)

My neighbour had a combi swap for £2300 in the Midlands that included the boiler, fitting charge and a new thermostat. All in.

Everytime I've paid in advance they've run off. I'd run a mile and find someone who will accept in arrears. The job is only a few days work so they won't be waiting long for payment.

If they want payment for materials in advance due to eg lead time then buy yourself and have it delivered to your home.

I had a new combi boiler on Tuesday - they gave me the fixed price for a replacement boiler, installation, new flue and wireless thermostat. They said that there may be an additional cost of up to £300 depending on whether the existing pipework needed to be upgraded and if it did, the extra cost depended on how much of the old pipework needed to be replaced (none, as it turned out).

I paid after the job had been completed.

I found a local heating company, relatively well known in the area after struggling to find an independent plumber. Some brans will show you fitters in your area so when you on the website you can search a fitter. Having a new Worcestershire boiler, new flue, thermostat, system flush/protectant and new filter along with capping off a gas fire for £2650

I can understand them wanting you to buy materials in advance as a lot of customers cancel and then they're left out of pocket. Not so much for labour though that would be paid after

I’ve always bought my own materials (I’ve done a few full house renovations) and I’ve never paid for labour before the job has been completed.
It does sound a lot for a boiler swap as there shouldn’t be that much to do 2 days max. I would try and get someone else.

If your turnover (sales) is high enough you have to register for VAT which instantly makes you more expensive to customers and means extra admin. If your turnover is "labour and parts" then you get to the threshold quicker than if your turnover is "labour only, customer buys their own parts".
A lot of construction types ask their customers to buy materials.

The important thing is: is he registered with Gas Safe?

thanks for the tip about Gas Safe, I've checked registration on there but forgot they list them by area too. Did look at various other sites but guy I had who made a mess of a repair was a Which trader so not confident that many are that reliable.

Gas Safe & OFTEC registration make sure they are industry qualified & regulated with the proper insurance etc. They will have individual and company registration numbers. The engineers have to pay to keep their registration current & there are compulsory courses that have to be completed to an acceptable level. OFTEC also audit & inspect engineers work at certain time periods to ensure the engineers still meet regulation. By using a registered engineer you have more comeback if anything goes wrong. With gas appliances if the engineer is not Gas Safe registered they are operating illegally.

I think Which/Checkatrader etc are more advertising than a legally qualified registration board.