Are there really no ramifications for not obtaining planning permission?

[SloopB]

We are in the process of buying a house with two offices over the garage. The owners converted the rooms above the garage and installed an exterior somewhat dodgy set of stairs to access the offices. It turns out they never even applied for planning permission. They say it doesn't matter as it's over 10 years old ergo the council is out of the period of enforcement?

Is this true?

Are there any possible ramifications for us? For house insurance etc?

There are two issues:
Planning permission
Building regulations

Unless there is a complaint, it's a listed building or you plan future work, planning permission might not be an issue.. however, you could ask them to get a habitual use certificate.

Building regulations is another story.. if there is a problem with the building and it was not built to the building regulations there could be insurance issues but more importantly, if you choose to do further renovations you may be required to rectify the existing work in order to get the new work passed.

We purchased with an extension on the back that didn't need planning as it was just under the width restrictions but we found out the day before we bloody moved it had no building regs either. We had indemnity insurance and the solicitor did say after 10 years it was fine anyway and it had been up for 7

@ChateauMargaux We plan to build an annex which would be a different building. Would the current office make obtaining planning for that an issue? Can you get building regs sign off without planning permission?

The staircase is dodgy as and I can't imagine would pass much muster. If we were to replace that staircase would it restart the 10 year clock?

There's a house by me that has an ugly extension that overlooks my house. I found out that it had its planning application refused 10 years ago, but they built it anyway. Then, they appealed the permission (is it called retrospective or something) and got refusd again.

I complained to the council and they said there was nothing they would do because it was 10 years ago.

It makes you wonder what the point of planning permission is!!

We looked at a property that had no planning permission/building regs for something that seemed to be fine, our lender advised they would not lend on it. So potentially unmortgageable even if doesn't affect you, might affect you selling it years down the line?

My solicitor advised indemnity insurance.

I am afraid I don't know the details... I would seek professional advice.

Bearing in mind that existing properties are not subject to current building regulations, for example, old houses with narrow stair cases and low ceilings are not required to be updated to current standards.

Indemnity insurance is often recommended but do look at what this covers, it usually covers the costs should the council come knocking, but as you can see from here, if it's been up a while, they are unlikely to. It does not cover the costs for you to upgrade or rectify things that were built to incorrect standards.

I don't think the repairs to the stair case would restart the 10 year clock.

From a legal perspective, these things tend to be really tricky whereas practically, it is rare that these things end up in court. Your extension may well fit within permitted development and therefore might be fine and given that it is a separate building.. however, shining a light carries some element of risk.

I am now waffling and well outside of my field of experience on this matter.... sorry.

I pulled out of a property which had no building regs for a loft room. EA like to say "it isn't called a bedroom, so all is okay", but as soon as you put up loft stairs, heating etc, you cannot argue it is just "storage only". As someone else mentioned, Indemnity insurance is absolutely useless, the Council will not come knocking. However you have to consider implications on re-sale (other buyers may also have issues with it and ask for reductions), house insurance, and also whether the mortgage lender will actually have issues with it. Lenders rely on the solicitors to do their checks re: building regulations, and some solicitors will ask for this to be reffered to the Lender of their decision.
I cannot advise on the implications of the offices over garage, but with the loft conversion I quickly learnt that a 3 bedroom house plus a dodgy unauthorised loft conversion, is worth less than a 3 bedroom house.
As another poster mentioned, if you intend to do further work, you will likely to asked to bring the current works up to standard. Remember, this is not your problem at the moment, but if you go ahead it certainly will be your problem.

@SloopB, planning permission and building regs are two separate things. Very often, if no external changes (or changes are limited), then you don't need planning permission. EVen some extensions fall within permitted development if they fall within certain thresholds. However, most internal works, particularly structural will require building regs. Unlike planning, there is no 10 yr rule with building regs.

I have been wondering this also as probably half the houses we saw had some sort of dodgy element that didn’t look like they would (or ever have) passed building regs. If you’re happy or planning to fix it up after moving I suppose it doesn’t matter too much unless I’m missing something?

Regardless of your opinions on it your mortgage lender will definitely have a view!
The planning permission can be covered off with an indemnity policy, paid for by the seller, BUT this only covers the cost of knocking it down if that's what you end up having to do, it won't compensate you for having two fewer rooms than you originally purchased. Your lender's valuation will have been done in the basis of the number of rooms that are physically there, not the number that are legal, so the lack of planning and bldg regs may mean the house is worth less than they think. Your solicitor (who is acting for your lender) will tell them about the lack of planning and bldg regs)
Tbh the lack of bldg regs is a bigger issue for something done recently, they are enforceable and you will need to put right anything necessary to get them. If I was acting for your lender I would insist the seller puts this right.

@DameCelia Do you mean they will count the illegal rooms or not in the valuation? Sorry it wasn't clear from what you wrote. I'm not sure the lender will really care as we are putting down 75%.

You might be only looking for 25% LTV but the next buyer may need 80% mortgage.
Not having building regs is a pain really as the length of time it is up makes no difference. I almost bought a place with a dodgy attic extension which wouldn't have passed building regs and had to pull out because a) it was dangerous which may be true of yours but it isn't a room in the house which is good and b) I'd have needed to find gullible buyers when selling.

Regardless of anything aren't you worried about safety? Building regs aren't just a layer of red tape, they are supposed to ensure buildings are fit for purpose. Put the staircase right and get building control involved when you do.

We would get a private building control person to come in and the stairs would need to be replaced. I'm not particularly worried about the safety. It's just offices that aren't attached to the main house.

What really gets me is that there's no ramification for the estate agent. They really should have to do some due diligence.

Buyer beware.

Building Regs are really important. They are your friend. It is a way of ensuring building work is done properly, safely and complies with relevant laws. Such as structural integrity, energy efficiency, fire safety etc.

I would not buy a house that had no building regs for work done. If it's done properly, building regs are easy to get. Why wouldn't you, unless you had something to hide?

Indemnity insurance is not a substitute for correct consents

Hi I took a door &window out to open up my kitchen into conservatory 18 years ago I'm now told I should have had planning for it did have planning for conservatory though what do I need to do can any one help

We bought a house that had no PP for a modification. The survey revealed that it wasn’t compliant with building regs, therefore unsafe. We got the sellers to rectify the fault before we would buy.

Are they home offices or are they rented out for commercial offices?

Is the garage part of the house or is it a separate building? Does it have planning permission?

If you are planning to apply for an annexe a planning officer will visit the site and will take note of everything there - it will come to light if unauthorised development has occurred. You will be left with the hassle of sorting it out. If a use has been carried out continuously for more than 10 years, it will be exempt from enforcement action. It will be down to you to prove it though. THe current owners could apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness for an Existing Use to regularize the planning situation, but this can take quite a while to be determined.

The above applies to the planning system. Building regulations are a different system.

@Joyerie

Your issue sounds more like a problems under the building regulations, not planning permission. Who has told you about the problem?

Hi a surveyor we had round told us

Yes that sounds like a Building Regs issue. Did the surveyor not advise you what needed to be done?