Family areas in London with short commute

[pyjamastoday]

DH and I are really struggling to find somewhere to move to in London. We have 1 DC and another on the way. Would be looking to move next year or so before DC 1 would need to start school. We currently live in Canning Town but we don't like it as it's really polluted, loud, lots of late night incidents, and there's very little green space. Schools aren't great either. Transport us excellent though so it was a good place to live while we were child-free and working. Not so much now we have DC or during lockdown!

Stumbling block is that DH needs to be within 45 mins max of the City as he works very late. We are prioritising green spaces and schools.

We looked at East Dulwich after seeing it recommended on here and whilst it was nice enough it felt a bit too 'trendy' for us, and also the walk to the park was about 30 minutes which is too far to just pop to the swings before lunch or something.

Every time I look at a nice area I see that secondary schools are an issue and so I go back to the drawing board. Not sure if we should forget about secondaries for now as DC is still young or will we come to regret that?

Anyway, if anyone can recommend a great family area with the short commute that would be great. Our budget might go up depending on DH's job but if we moved today we'd be looking at around 750, ideally for 3 beds.

Yes you're right @dreamingbohemian it very much depends on the floor space. We saw a nice maisonette which had its own garden and felt like a house anyway. A lot if the 3bed houses in Charlton we could afford are tiny old railway workers cottages with low ceilings. I'd prefer a spacious flat.

I think you're limiting yourself and will feel differently when you have 2 small kids in a flat. Imagine you want to go outside with the older one and the younger one has just gone to sleep in its cot. Entirely your choice of course and I'm sure plenty of people do it fine or better than fine - bit given you've got the choice I think your sanity re: size of house, possible garden, and area should be more important than 15 mins off your H's commute (especially since unless he's Superpartner I'm guessing he won't be clocking off at 5pm and coming straight home every night).

Rather than rely on citimapper I suggest you get on a train at Blackfriars, head out towards Kent and have a look round every stop you go to until it gets too suburban (I agree with you about Beckenham). Same with other places - don't rely on Citimapper. It's useful but doesn't always give you the most practical/quickest route.

@pyjamastoday

Where are you talking about please *@ShingleBeach* ?

Aaargh, sorry, forgot link

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112461890#/?channel=RES_BUY

Really recommend Surbiton - great schools, lovely local area, promenade by the Thames, Home park/Bushey Park across the river, two big rec grounds with play parks, tennis courts and cafe. Can do fast train one stop to Waterloo then one stop to Bank on W&C line.

@ParentOfOne

On the reliability of trains: take a railway map and look at how many lines converge on your station or before. This is important because it adds an element of 'redundancy', as engineers would say. Take Wimbledon or Balham: many lines converge there, so if one line has a problem, there are still 3-4 other lines which are likely to keep running.

Compare that to East Dulwich, which has only one line: if there's a problem, you are stuck.

OP, depending on where you need to go, don't rule out the train: there are certain train lines with trains every 3-4 minutes, which is more frequent than some tube lines.

Or you could walk up the road to Denmark hill or go to Peckham.

"Or you could walk up the road to Denmark hill or go to Peckham."

Not sure what this would achieve. Trains from East Dulwich go to London Bridge only. Peckham Rye is one stop after East Dulwich on the way to London Bridge. The same train which is delayed or cancelled at East Dulwich will also be delayed or cancelled at Peckham Rye.

Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye are both on the line to Victoria (pretty rare and unreliable) and on the overground; the overground to Shoreditch High st could be an alternative to get to the city, but it's not the most frequent (every 15 minutes) nor reliable line.

Also, if the husband needs to travel to Heathrow frequently, East Dulwich isn't the best location.

@ThePlantsitter what does Superpartner mean?

His quick commute time is really important to us so that he doesn't get home too late or travelling for an hour or more late at night, or if he has to nip to the office on a Saturday or Sunday. It's important for our marriage and family time. Being together as much as possible makes a big difference to our quality of life, more so than me sat in a house on my own all day.

Yep echo the commute point. Im in zone 4 and my own neighbours would claim we are "20 minute to Central London" by fast train which is not technically wrong, but the reality is 1 or even 1.5 hours door to desk at peak times.

Most people don't live above a station, let alone families with school runs.. and nobody computes the tube transfers, waiting or walking to station times (you can't exactly time public transport to a tee)

I take it with pinch of salt when colleagues claim it's an hour or wee bit more than me, from Tunbridge Wells or wherever (usually it's a village off a commuter town too)

Really @PeachScone I haven't ever thought about Surbiton! Went through it on the train and assumed its really suburban. Sounds lovely though, will have a look.

I'm no ED lover (too trendy as op says) but Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill have way more trains than you're saying @ParentOfOne. Also they are incredibly well connected by bus which can end up super quick so close to central London. This is why you need to check out transport links for yourself OP.

[quote pyjamastoday]@ThePlantsitter what does Superpartner mean?

His quick commute time is really important to us so that he doesn't get home too late or travelling for an hour or more late at night, or if he has to nip to the office on a Saturday or Sunday. It's important for our marriage and family time. Being together as much as possible makes a big difference to our quality of life, more so than me sat in a house on my own all day.[/quote]
In the very very nicest way, not being bitchy or superior and as someone who has been a SAHM in London with an H working in the city, it is really important that you prioritise how your alone with the kids time looks and even more so if your quality of life is so directly linked to hanging out with your H. I get that family time is the most important time but 15 minutes more on his commute could be the difference between a garden and no garden at your price bracket, or an extra room in the house/flat. You having enough space with 2 kids and having a better quality of life when you're on your own may well prevent the death knell of resentment building up in the marriage.

I'm not trying to be horrible I'm just speaking from experience. Prioritise you and the kids.

Surely Peckham Rye is even more trendy than East Dulwich!

I agree it's hard to leave the tube, it's why SE London is cheaper (relatively speaking!)

You do get used to it though, and in rush hours the trains are really frequent in most of the area.

You could look around Maze Hill/Westcombe Park in East Greenwich, you have the train but you can also do a quick bus ride to North Greenwich tube (the bus itself is 10 minutes).

Herne Hill has good train service but also a walk/bus to Brixton tube.

I agree multiple options are good because either the tube or trains go down all the time!

In the very very nicest way, not being bitchy or superior and as someone who has been a SAHM in London with an H working in the city, it is really important that you prioritise how your alone with the kids time looks and even more so if your quality of life is so directly linked to hanging out with your H. I get that family time is the most important time but 15 minutes more on his commute could be the difference between a garden and no garden at your price bracket, or an extra room in the house/flat. You having enough space with 2 kids and having a better quality of life when you're on your own may well prevent the death knell of resentment building up in the marriage.

I'm not trying to be horrible I'm just speaking from experience. Prioritise you and the kids.

First of all I didn't say I was a SAHM. I have work and a life too and for that the more central the better! In my case I think I'd feel more resentment living in a suburban area out of the way and waiting for DH to get home on a Saturday afternoon. Also, my DC enjoys going to all the things we have in central, now they're opening up, like the museums etc, and we love going to the galleries, parks in central.

But of course it's a compromise and that's the point of this thread, to get more insight into where those compromises are. If you can find me the house you're envisaging in the great area do please let me know!

@ThePlantsitter

I'm no ED lover (too trendy as op says) but Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill have way more trains than you're saying *@ParentOfOne*. Also they are incredibly well connected by bus which can end up super quick so close to central London. This is why you need to check out transport links for yourself OP.

I lived in the Dulwich - Peckham area many years, then moved out of frustration at the poor quality of transport: it was zone 2, but it felt like being in zone 20. This is of course very subjective, not everyone agrees, I know lots of people who remained there and are happy about it.

What is less subjective is the train line: if you are going from East Dulwich into London Bridge, then the next stop is Peckham Rye. East Dulwich and Peckham Rye are on the same line to London Bridge: there is not a single train to London Bridge which goes to Peckham Rye but not East Dulwich.

If the intention is to go to the City, depending on where in the City, the overground from Denmark Hill or Peckham Rye to Shoreditch High street might be an alternative to the train to London Bridge (which I mentioned), but the overground is only once every 15 minutes. Don't take my word for it - look it up.

As for buses into central London, that is absolutely and categorically not my experience. And by that I don't mean visiting once or twice a friend who lives there, by that I mean having spent more than 5 years in the area. Yes, there are quite a few buses, but they take quite a while - a fast and reliable service it isn't. It's got worse since the Lycra-clad talibans removed the bus lane between Oval and PImlico to make way for a segregated cycle lane, which hardly anyone uses outside of rush hour. It wasn't uncommon to take more than half an hour door to door to Brixton, or 40-50 minutes to Pimlico or to Elephant and castle.

@pyjamastoday ah ok. I think because the focus was on your H's commute rather than yours I wrongly assumed you didn't have one.

I do think Brockley/Camberwell might suit. The trouble with ruling out trains is that to be affordable on the tube you have to go out further, even for flats. That's the compromise innit. Relying on trains can mitigate that a bit.

@ParentOfOne the Thameslink also goes into Blackfriars from Peckham/Denmark H but not ED. However I don't know why I've got into an argument about it since ultimately it's not something I have strong feelings about! Please ignore me it's like I get on Mumsnet and the confrontational parts of my personality I suppress in real life burst forth!

Have you considered West Norwood? Really lovely area now with a fantastic community vibe, with excellent primary schools and a good selection of good secondaries (Dunraven, Norwood School, Elmgreen).

Direct line via overgrown into Victoria and London Bridge. OH (when office based) was commuting into Shorditch High Street which took him around 45 mins.

Frequent buses to Brixton (10 mins) where you can get the tube, and easy to get to surrounding areas - CP, Balham, Streatham, Dulwich etc by bus.

Good selection of cafe's, pubs and bars, a cinema and health centre/gym.

I've lived around here over 20 years and seen massive amounts of change, but not so much that it has the sanitised/nappy valley feel of ED.

You can still get a 4 bed house for under £900k. Definitely worth a look.

Also they are incredibly well connected by bus which can end up super quick so close to central London
Yeah, I lived in Herne Hill for six years and... hard nope. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you think buses from East Dul/Herne Hill/Denmark Hill are "super quick to central London", even well outside rush hour. I love London buses, but super quick they are not. 1h+ in the morning easily.

@ParentOfOne

"Or you could walk up the road to Denmark hill or go to Peckham."

Not sure what this would achieve. Trains from East Dulwich go to London Bridge only. Peckham Rye is one stop after East Dulwich on the way to London Bridge. The same train which is delayed or cancelled at East Dulwich will also be delayed or cancelled at Peckham Rye.

Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye are both on the line to Victoria (pretty rare and unreliable) and on the overground; the overground to Shoreditch High st could be an alternative to get to the city, but it's not the most frequent (every 15 minutes) nor reliable line.

Also, if the husband needs to travel to Heathrow frequently, East Dulwich isn't the best location.

Your initial post said you should aim to be close to stations with 3-4 lines. Both Denmark Hill and Peckham have more than one line. You can get to London Bridge, Victoria or Blackfriars and then you have the overground which will take you to canada water and on to the tube in two stops.

I don't think any of these places are poorly connected.

But I do agree that getting to Heathrow would be a nightmare.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/105802502#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/79778487#/?channel=RES_BUY

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/77485821#/?channel=RES_BUY

All the above are good areas, top one is a particularly nice and quiet road.

@ThePlantsitter You're right, there's also the Thameslink from Peckham Rye - Denmark Hill (but not ED) to BlackFriars, City Thameslink and Farringdon. It's not every 5 minutes but, depending on where one needs to go, it can be very useful.
No worries about the tone, it's easy to misunderstand each other when typing without seeing each other face to face.

I came on to say Beckenham but can see you’ve already discounted it. The bits around Clockhouse and Kent house are more like London and you could even think about Penge. Penge East to Victoria is 17mins and Penge West to London Bridge is 23 mins plus the overground which will take you to Canada Water or Shoreditch. Primary schools are good but for the moment Secondary schools are a bit patchy.

Depends where you are. I lived in Peckham for a while and the number 12 bus got me home in 40 mins from work. Not fooling myself.

Walthamstow - parts are already very lovely and the less lovely bits soon will be. Into Liverpool St in 15 mins, and can do Victoria Line to Finsbury Park to get onto Heathrow-bound Piccadilly in under an hour I think.

OP, somewhere like this would be a good compromise between space and area

The immediate area has plenty for a day to day happy life, walking distance to Balham tube and Streatham Hill overground, the common is v v close and the Between the commons area is still 15 mins walk or a short bus ride away
It still feels like proper London but has stacks of green space within a short walk and would be easy commutes for the City by tube, and Heathrow by cab

A £50k refurb of that house would make it amazing, and keep it under your budget, with the potential to do the loft at a later date or turn the garage into an extra room

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/103474934#/?channel=RES_BUY