Water pissing out of the loft tank overflow

[Crockof]

Can anyone help? I know that there is a mnetter who is a plumbing saviour?

I have had three, three heating engineers around and paid their fee. My overflow pipe is still pissing water. All have said the floaty stop cock is causing the problem, all have changed it, its still fecking pissing. I have three overflow pipes and three tanks in my loft (two massive ones and one small one)

It pisses out the moment the heating goes on (and occasionally when it isnt) it's not a drip it's a fecking waterfall. Can anyone help?

I can't help but maybe a MNetter like @pigletjohn can offer some advice about how to proceed.

You must be stressed out of your tits. I would be.

@SpindleWhorl

I can't help but maybe a MNetter like *@pigletjohn* can offer some advice about how to proceed.

You must be stressed out of your tits. I would be.

Thank you, I knew there was someone (and I'd really appreciate the help) it's been made worse by the fact the fecking dripping wakes me up at 6.30am, but the realisation that soon it will be an ice rink has galvanised me into action (for those it will annoy, I know I can swear but if I start on this I don't think I will ever stop)

We had this when we moved into our house, eventually resolved by replacing the one small tank.

Not sure if this will help.

www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/can-cause-header-tank-overflow

if you've had the ballcock changed, we can probably rule that out for now.

So.

What colour is your hot water cylinder?

When you go into the loft, you have this small (feed and expansion) tank that is probably rather dirty. I think you also have a much larger tank, full of clean cold water.

I think that the top of this big tank is higher than the small one, so that if you were to connect them together, for example by running a pipe from the bottom of the big one to the bottom of the little one, the little one would overflow.

Am I right?

Or

Does it only gush out when you turn on the heating pump?

If so, look at the little tank. How deep is the water, and how deep is the layer of mud? It has a pipe hanging over it, in an inverted "U." The open end of this pipe should be above the water level so that there is always an air gap. Perhaps water sometimes comes out of this pipe. Unless it happens while you are looking at it, tie a piece of rag round the open end, so that it will get wet if water comes out of it, enabling you to check if it has happened.

I think your boiler and radiators are rather old. How old, do you think?

When you bleed the radiators, does "air" come out? When the water comes out, what colour is it?

Some photos of the tanks and the cylinder, and the pipes and other things around them, would be helpful.

We had a similar problem this week! However it pissed out water all the time! It turned out to be that the hot water tank had “gone” inside. We had a new one put in and the problem stopped straight away.

@PigletJohn

if you've had the ballcock changed, we can probably rule that out for now.

So.

What colour is your hot water cylinder?

When you go into the loft, you have this small (feed and expansion) tank that is probably rather dirty. I think you also have a much larger tank, full of clean cold water.

I think that the top of this big tank is higher than the small one, so that if you were to connect them together, for example by running a pipe from the bottom of the big one to the bottom of the little one, the little one would overflow.

Am I right?

Or

Does it only gush out when you turn on the heating pump?

If so, look at the little tank. How deep is the water, and how deep is the layer of mud? It has a pipe hanging over it, in an inverted "U." The open end of this pipe should be above the water level so that there is always an air gap. Perhaps water sometimes comes out of this pipe. Unless it happens while you are looking at it, tie a piece of rag round the open end, so that it will get wet if water comes out of it, enabling you to check if it has happened.

I think your boiler and radiators are rather old. How old, do you think?

When you bleed the radiators, does "air" come out? When the water comes out, what colour is it?

Some photos of the tanks and the cylinder, and the pipes and other things around them, would be helpful.

Thank you so much for replying, to answer your questions without guessing I will need to brave the very small and spidery loft.

I know it is all very old (boiler around 30 years but working great and hot water cylinder (which has blue cladding but don't think that is what you mean) replaced 9 years ago) we do have to regularly bleed radiators but water is clear. About 11 years ago we had the heating system cleaned (If this is relevant)

I will post pictures tomorrow thank you for your help

[quote Debetswell]Not sure if this will help.

www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/can-cause-header-tank-overflow[/quote]
That was helpful thank you. One plumber said it was the cylinder but that says the water would be rusty if it was

@LizzieSiddal

We had a similar problem this week! However it pissed out water all the time! It turned out to be that the hot water tank had “gone” inside. We had a new one put in and the problem stopped straight away.

I'm worried this is the case. If so I'm going to replace the whole system but hoping it is something cheaper.

@LizzieSiddal

We had a similar problem this week! However it pissed out water all the time! It turned out to be that the hot water tank had “gone” inside. We had a new one put in and the problem stopped straight away.

Cylinder, not tank.

blue cladding on cylinder

yes, that's what I meant. The age can be estimated from the colour.

blue is quite modern, so not the likely culprit.

I could have written this post too @Crockof
How bloody weird.

Right down to the THREE call out plumbers who have each charged me an arm and a leg to feck around with ball cock.

Last but one declared it was likely a small hole in hot water tank coil so I booked one in to come for new one at great expense (£900) - made extra infuriating as I'm selling and leaving in a few weeks.

He too, fecked around with ball cock. Declared it fixed, drove off with my new hot water tank only for it to start pudding water again 30 mins later (after of paid him £120 call out for his 15 Labour). He can't get back to me until a week tomorrow when ot will have been haemorrhaging water for a month.

🙄😳🥺

By puddling water I meant to have it say pissing water.
Ffs

Weirdly the water pouring out of mine is crystal clear which I think is why all three engineers have been puzzled as taught it would be a mix of dirty radiator system water with bath water which it's not.

We'd lived in our house for 15 years with a very old LPG Potterton boiler and cold water feeder tank in the loft. The overflow had been dripping for months - we had 2 new ballcocks and 2 different plumbers scratching their heads over it.

Just a word of caution......... ours flooded big time and the water came pissing down through the ceiling and into our fitted wardrobes. Caused no end of damage........ we had to replace a lot of the clothing, the wardrobes, ceiling and carpet as well as decorate.

Do you have any isolating valves in the cold water pipe up to the loft? Our supply pipe went up through the airing cupboard and had an allen key fitting in it to turn off thank god, though it was too little too late by the time my Dad reminded me that he'd fitted it

@Ruralbliss

By puddling water I meant to have it say pissing water. Ffs

Weirdly the water pouring out of mine is crystal clear which I think is why all three engineers have been puzzled as taught it would be a mix of dirty radiator system water with bath water which it's not.

It won't be.

When the F&E is overflowing, as described here, the whole point is that the (clean) tapwater is leaking into the circulating pipes to the boiler. So clean water is going in. Dirty water is not leaking into the taps.

In the case of this particular thread, that may not be what is happening anyway.

Sorry, there's more too it than that, but we'll know more later.

Many thanks @PigletJohn for wisdoms info this!

Thanks for your help, we have a shallow non boarded loft and it was very difficult getting photos.

Pic one is it running out of overflow, it is often worse and only runs when heating is on although it drips occasionally overnight when no heating on.
Pic two is small tank, couldn't get a picture of it but it is cloudy and sludgey.
Pic three is the big tank, there are two of these. Clear water but full of limescale

In the little tank the water is below the U thing, it wasn't overflowing when we looked at it until we put the hot water on, then it immediately shot up to the overflow pipe, and then dropped back down when the hot water was turned off.
The cylinder was replaced 11 years ago (I found the paperwork)
After looking at the gross tanks a. I know why you can't drink our upstairs water and b. If it's going to be expensive to repair I am going to get a whole new boiler system (which is another box of worms)

Thank you so much PigletJohn for your time.

do you remember how deep the water was in the little tank?

Is the mud in a layer at the bottom, or stirred up into the water?

There is a copper pipe going down through the lid. Do you remember if the bottom of it dips into the water? If you follow it's route back, does it go into the airiing cupboard next (but not on the top of) the hot water cylinder?

If you can lay your hands on some boards to stand or kneel on, the little tank is, I think, key to working out what's going on. I don't know how strong and agile you are.

BTW the pipe going into the end of the small tank is the water supply pipe for the ballcock, it should be encased in that grey foam lagging and retained with vinyl tape (not sellotape) or bound with string. A burst due to frost would be very distressing.

"In the little tank the water is below the U thing, it wasn't overflowing when we looked at it until we put the hot water on, then it immediately shot up to the overflow pipe, and then dropped back down when the hot water was turned off."

Aha.

Did it come out of the inverted U pipe in the top of the small tank?

Can you photograph the pipes and other things round the cylinder, and can you lay your hands on a strong magnet?

btw you had better wear a dust mask when you are up there. I find that yellow fibreglass sheds dust and fibres that affect my chest. There is a new type that is better.

a Covid mask is better than nothing, but a white shell mask from a DIY or builders shop, with a valve on the snout, is a lot better.

I'm so glad I've stumbled across this thread as we've just moved into a house built in 1985 and the overflow pipes are always dripping and running!!

Thank you very much pigletjohn especially for the pipe info, although dreadful that all the people that have been up there haven't mentioned it.

I'm a work so going to go back up there to answer correctly when I'm home, thanks for the mask tip, some idiot has laid it the wrong way so it goes up and over the joists not in the gap... I had a brief thought of moving it but it is horrible to touch, we don't use the loft for anything other than the water tanks, I have a paint mask with filter so will wear that.

Yes I can get a magnet. I really appreciate the time you have taken to help a stranger. Will report back

it is sounding increasingly like your problem is caused by a partial pipe blockage due to sediment. The pump is unable to send the circulation round the correct pipes so a surge is venting into the tank.

We will be able to verify this.

Looking at the pipework in the airing cupboard I know where the blockage is likely to be, and your magnet will confirm it because the magnetism will pass through the copper pipe and detect the mass or (probably) iron oxide, solidified like stone with limescale.

There are (at least) three cures of varyng cost and effectiveness.

You might be able to temporarily reduce the surge by turning down the pump speed, and you might be able to cheaply reduce the blockage with a simple DIY chemical treatment.

If you are already thinking of renovating the system it may not be worth moving to the more expensive work.

How many bathrooms and showers are in the house, and how many people might it accomodate?