Damp patch on wall. Roof work hasn't helped

[WaterLeakWoes]

I live in a Victorian, 2 bed end of terrace without a loft conversion, so the loft is just used for storage. In my bedroom there is a big damp patch on the wall on the gable end side. A bit near the ceiling but also big patches lower down above bed level.
I've had two roofers out doing various work but it's made no difference at all. They say the roof is in good order and they've done all they can. It's getting worse if anything with all the rain we've had. It gets worse when it rains and dries out when we have a dry patch of weather. Rain definitely getting in somehow
What can I do next please?

Tried to make sense of the layout - is this accurate? I'll reflect back what I think it is, so this may help others to offer advice as well. The wall where the stain is, is under the chimney, no windows. The outside of that wall looks dry/okay. Internal wall - is it at a distance to the externall wall with the chimney boarded? (or not?) I.e. is the stain on the internal wall but not on the external wall? Additionally you have an obvious issue next to the window on the external wall which is either failed guttering or part of the same problem if that damp line actually reflects where your internal wall is.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

Is it a blocked off fireplace? The soot absorbs moisture. Make sure it's swept and air can move through the stack. Do you have PVCu windows as these help with heat loss but stop moisture from everyone in the house getting back out. Again windows need to be opened daily to let the inside dry. Paint on exterior walls is bad too as it seals the walls to any moisture getting in can't get out. Are all gutters clear and leak free. Lastly do any cables going through the wall have a loop under where they enter to stop any water going straight in? Has any repointing been done using lime mortar. Cement shouldn't be used as again it doesn't breathe. Loads to check there.

The back of the house (my bedroom) has a sealed off fireplace. The front has open downstairs that can be used as an open fire but bedroom one is sealed off. Will get it swept. Yes PVCu windows I think. Not done by us. I open windows and will continue to make sure I do. The front and back are painted pebble dash but not the gable end. The property maintenance company said the gutters were fine. Yes I'm sure it's probably cement. Most of my house is probably a botch job done cheaply in the past. It's the same as the neighbours have but they don't seem to get leaks. Might be to do with the direction my gable end faces. I'm not sure able cables going in. I couldn't see any but the scaffolding is in the way of part of it

Thanks so much for trying to help

Just seen new posts before my latest one so I'll read those

You need a close-up picture of the chimney. If you get more roofers coming over ask them for pictures. You need to check that flashings are in good order (hope so if they've been done recently) and than the pointing on the chimney is also done properly/recently. If there are gaps between bricks because the pointing isn't good, then it may leak through there, it's quite common actually. Does it leak every time it rains or only under certain conditions / direction of the wind?

Good pictures about chimney pointing and flashings here:
www.fixmyroof.co.uk/videos-and-guides/chimneys/

@SecretOfChange

Tried to make sense of the layout - is this accurate? I'll reflect back what I think it is, so this may help others to offer advice as well. The wall where the stain is, is under the chimney, no windows. The outside of that wall looks dry/okay. Internal wall - is it at a distance to the externall wall with the chimney boarded? (or not?) I.e. is the stain on the internal wall but not on the external wall? Additionally you have an obvious issue next to the window on the external wall which is either failed guttering or part of the same problem if that damp line actually reflects where your internal wall is.

Your picture is correct but the stain starts about 235 cm from where that gutter is on the back wall. Correct no windows on the side wall. I can't see a stain on the side external wall. I'm getting the front and back walls of the house done soon by the same property company. They are replacing rotten window ledges and resealing everything and painted over

Is there a gap between internal and external wall, the width of the chimney?

@SecretOfChange

You need a close-up picture of the chimney. If you get more roofers coming over ask them for pictures. You need to check that flashings are in good order (hope so if they've been done recently) and than the pointing on the chimney is also done properly/recently. If there are gaps between bricks because the pointing isn't good, then it may leak through there, it's quite common actually. Does it leak every time it rains or only under certain conditions / direction of the wind?

They took photos close up of what they'd done to the chimney and sent them to me but I'd better not post them online

@SecretOfChange

Is there a gap between internal and external wall, the width of the chimney?

I'm not sure about that. It was already sealed up when we moved in

@WaterLeakWoes

2 different roofers not lofts

Sorry that made me laugh

I'm very sympathetic as I've got a damp strip running down my bedroom wall too of no known cause, with a massive bookcase underneath. That'll be fun to tackle.

@SecretOfChange

You need a close-up picture of the chimney. If you get more roofers coming over ask them for pictures. You need to check that flashings are in good order (hope so if they've been done recently) and than the pointing on the chimney is also done properly/recently. If there are gaps between bricks because the pointing isn't good, then it may leak through there, it's quite common actually. Does it leak every time it rains or only under certain conditions / direction of the wind?

If it's light rain I don't see too much but if it's heavy or prolonged rain (lots of that this year!) it comes in within about 24 hours. Not instantly. It's rained so much this year it's come through a lot. Last year there were more dry periods

SpindleWhorl 😀
Nightmare huh! I worry it'll rot the timber. I don't know my arse from my elbow with all this

The water gets in through cracks in the render and runs down. Mine was getting in at the top and running down between the wall and the concrete render.

There's also a concept called 'breathability' as a PP has suggested - this was also an issue with mine. Stone needs to 'breathe', and blocking one side with a seal of any description - concrete, sealants - means that the damp remains on the other side...and that would be the inside of the house. Excellent. Give a little thought as to moisture exchange, it matters in old houses.

This chap on the website here gives some views:

www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/types-of-damp-what-have-i-got/damp-problems-caused-by-cement-pointing-of-brick-or-stone.html

Thanks. The roofer did try to seal up all cracks in the render and at the top. He feels like he's tried everything. Will read the article

So it has cracked? There's a saying - 'it'll get where watter won't' as a nod to how water will find a way everywhere. I think at the very least, you need to examine this as the cause, along with lack of ventilation to blocked up chimneys (although as it only happens when it's raining makes me think this is the lesser of the issues)

@userlotsanumbers

So it has cracked? There's a saying - 'it'll get where watter won't' as a nod to how water will find a way everywhere. I think at the very least, you need to examine this as the cause, along with lack of ventilation to blocked up chimneys (although as it only happens when it's raining makes me think this is the lesser of the issues)

There were small cracks in the render but the roofer has tried to seal all of them and thinks it's fine. In the first outdoor photo you can see where he's sealed one of the cracks. It made no difference though.

It could be that there are wall ties in the gable end, or that cavity wall insulation has been incorrectly installed. I’d get a damp proof company in rather than a roofer.

Thanks

I think you say the damp is showing on the fireplace wall? Where the chimneybreast would be if it wasn't on the outside? Not on the plain wall which is thinner? This would suggest water is getting into the flues, most likely rain from the top.
Is the damp near the floor or near the ceiling?

the stain looks to me like clean water. An old well used chimney, full of tar and soot, will give yellow or brown stains; but a bedroom fireplace and flue may have been used never or seldom, so will be clean. There will be a separate flue and chimneypot for each fireplace there used to be.

Can you look in the loft. There may be water marks giving clues.

The flues need ventilating anyway, which will dry out modest amounts of damp. They are open at the top so there will be a flow of air and water vapour rising out and escaping through the chimneypots. An airbrick or similar near the skirting where the fireplace used to be will be fine, though you may discover the builders shovelled rubble in, which will harbour damp and needs to be removed.

The chimneypots all seem to have gas-fire terminals, so the chimneys may not be very sooty.

The stain on your render looks to me like a rust-stain, probably due to a fault on cast-iron guttering. But it is not in a position to make the gable wall wet.

Looking at the age of your house I do not believe you have cavity walls, so there will not be wall ties or CWI.

Do not allow anyone who sells silicone injections into your house. Nor "damp-proof" wall coatings. You have a building problem.

I would be thinking about having the chimneystack removed down to roof level and capped, except that you say you still have a downstairs fire. Was the flashing done with lead, or sticky tape?

@WaterLeakWoes

Here's some photos of the inside. I'll take some outside ones soon. Yes there is a chimney. It's been repointed twice as the second roofer said the first roofer said the first one had done it wrongly. It's also been recemented at the top by 2nd roofer and they did some sealing work.

I've been looking at this picture of the damp near the ceiling.

I think the water is running down the inside face of the wall in the loft.

you should be able to see something up there.

I would be thinking about the junction of the chimneystack with the roofing. Lead flashing, correctly applied, ought to fix this but there may be some associated fault.

Thanks piglet. I went out but will read through what you've written and respond

@PigletJohn

I think you say the damp is showing on the fireplace wall? Where the chimneybreast would be if it wasn't on the outside? Not on the plain wall which is thinner? This would suggest water is getting into the flues, most likely rain from the top. Is the damp near the floor or near the ceiling?

the stain looks to me like clean water. An old well used chimney, full of tar and soot, will give yellow or brown stains; but a bedroom fireplace and flue may have been used never or seldom, so will be clean. There will be a separate flue and chimneypot for each fireplace there used to be.

Can you look in the loft. There may be water marks giving clues.

The flues need ventilating anyway, which will dry out modest amounts of damp. They are open at the top so there will be a flow of air and water vapour rising out and escaping through the chimneypots. An airbrick or similar near the skirting where the fireplace used to be will be fine, though you may discover the builders shovelled rubble in, which will harbour damp and needs to be removed.

The chimneypots all seem to have gas-fire terminals, so the chimneys may not be very sooty.

The stain on your render looks to me like a rust-stain, probably due to a fault on cast-iron guttering. But it is not in a position to make the gable wall wet.

Looking at the age of your house I do not believe you have cavity walls, so there will not be wall ties or CWI.

Do not allow anyone who sells silicone injections into your house. Nor "damp-proof" wall coatings. You have a building problem.

I would be thinking about having the chimneystack removed down to roof level and capped, except that you say you still have a downstairs fire. Was the flashing done with lead, or sticky tape?

In this photo is the ceiling of the room where I took the inside damp photos. You can see where the fireplace would have been originally. The damp patch underneath is to the left of that. It ends where the old bedroom fireplace would have started. The damp bit near the ceiling is kind of underneath where the chimney stack is. The lower down damp patch is more to the right and starts about 30 cm from the dividing wall between the 2 bedrooms

Will go through your other points

The larger, lower damp patch is above bed level and a little below it.