Old House - insulation? Worth the purchase?

[Ft23]

Hello,

We're in the process of buying a 1920's semi in West Yorkshire. It is an original 3 bed, now with a loft extension and a rear conservatory extension - both done in 2000.

We've recently found out that the EPC on sale was incorrect- the house is solid brick not cavity wall (uninsulated). The rating is now a low E. It also says there is no loft insulation (the loft conversion has two small bedrooms), and no under floor insulation. There is double glazing throughout.

We currently live in a half insulated cavity wall house, EPC rating a high D and find it cold in winter. We're concerned the house we want to buy will be much, much colder and too expensive to heat. The house is already rendered and we cannot afford external wall insulation (quote seems to be £15k).

Has anyone got experience with these types of properties- is there anything else we can do to improve insulation? Idea of heating bills? Or is it best to walk away from a cold house?

Thanks

Any house built before 1930 is likely to be single brick solid walls, which must be a good 50% of the country's housing stock?

Depending on how long you live there it could swallow huge sums of money in hearing over the years. You will definitely be noticing the cold and probably draughts too in the winter.
You have to be careful when insulating old properties to choose the right approach or you can create damp problems, but you could insulate from the inside room by room gradually if you live it and it offers a lot of other benefits.
It would definitely give me pause for thought but depends on other factors too like choice, school location etc

Insulating the loft will give the best return on investment. If true, it's weird that the previous owners did not have it done.

You might consider internal insulation of walls as and when each room needs major redecoration or refurb.

External wall insulation is more of a job but you could think about it if the house needs re-rendering or cladding.

We’re in a similar position and I had sort of discounted internal insulation as didn’t know if it was that effective - can anyone who’s had it done tell me more about it?

Can’t you insulate the loft yourselves? We’ve done it.
We had external wall insulation, the loft and cellar are insulated and the house is unbearably hot in summer, wish we had never had it done.

You can get insulated plaster board but that means a lot of work in every room. It does work. It is worth taking advice as the type and thickness of the insulation needs to be calculated correctly.
Loft insulation is relatively easy and you can get thin high performance insulation to avoid losing space.
Other option is to buy another house instead but that’s not easy atm

@Suzi888 what does your external insulation look like?

I’m so sorry your house is unbearably hot that would be so annoying! I’m in NI beside the sea so more likely to be freezing my ass off at the pitiful fireside, Dickens style. (In august )

We did internal wall insulation, but we were replastering anyway so it was less hassle and cost.

You loose a good 15cm+ off each external wall (unless you pay the big bucks for the super thin stuff), and then have to replace your skirting and window boards after. So unless they are decent size rooms and you're doing a full renovation it's probably not cost effective.

Any chance you could negotiate on price if the original listing was wrong?

Would it be a lot of work/expense to insulate the loft? I thought you had to provide proper roof insulation as part of buildings regs for loft conversions. I may be wrong though.

I live in a 1905 semi with solid walls. Only insulation is loft insulation. It’s a typical 3 bed semi and we have the thermostat set to 20. Bills are about £110 a month.

Ask the sellers how much their bills currently are.

We lived in a 1920s solid wall detached house for four years. I must admit, I was freezing in the winter. I wouldn’t personally do it again.

We bought a 1890s solid stone house. No insulation other than loft, and single glazed windows. It was a horrendous winter. We have since replaced all the windows and insulated below any floors we’ve taken up. It’s made a big difference. We will likely externally insulate when we come to render but like you, cannot afford this yet. Honestly the windows (and beefing up all the old radiators for high BTU) have made such a difference. My heating bill will likely still be painful as it’s a large house but hopefully not as bad as last year!

You can insulate the loft yourself in a day for about £100, you just roll out the insulation.

Other options would cost more, just wear a jumper and save up to do more if you want.

Is it possible to insulate the loft if there's already a loft conversion? The walls end ceiling are already plastered and we hadn't budgeted to redo this. Could you advise on the practicality and costs please?

I wouldn't touch an uninsulated attic. It can be done retrospectively, but ripping out and redoing costs ££. You lose more height than you think even with the really thin insulation because of space for condensation.

Did it have building regs sign off if it's uninsulated?

@Crowsaregreat

You can insulate the loft yourself in a day for about £100, you just roll out the insulation.

Other options would cost more, just wear a jumper and save up to do more if you want.

Its not so much the cold. Its the heat in summer. Think how hot a loft gets in the summer.

Who has said it’s wrong? When was the loft converted? I can’t believe that no insulation was put in unless building regs weren’t involved? We’ve just had a loft done and I couldn’t believe the amount of insulation we needed.

I’d have thought even 20 years ago they would normally have added some.

Sounds much like my house - brick built no insulation, converted attic. It is freezing in winter. Last year it was 6 degrees in the Living room. For the attic you would need to see what gap is between the ceiling and the roof. I have a 4 inch gap so I'm going to take down the ceiling and put superquilt up then replace the ceiling.
The cold also comes up through the floorboards on the ground floor (suspended wooden floor) so I'm adding superquilt under the boards.
My cavity walls have rubble in the gap so makes filling it difficult.
Internal insulation makes the rooms too small. For external insulation you need enough eaves overhang to fit it. Be careful what type and company you use - a lot of false claims out there.
Thermal wallpaper will help a bit. As will double glazing and filling the gaps around skirting. To check for draughts light a match and watch the flame.
Look to see if you have a warm and well advisor in the area.
The green energy grants the government did last year were pretty hopeless but there may be similar grants in the future.

I do think @Tulipvase is right, we had to rip out an un registered loft conversion in our old house and start again to get buildings control sign off, the resulting room was much smaller but warmer! And actually probably cooler in the summer due to keeping heat out.

Sorry what I meant to say is that unless it’s ancient and unregulated, it probably is insulated.

My house has a 2008 fully signed off loft conversion - it had the best insulation available at the time, which I believe is still the best now. It is very cold in winter and very hot in summer. I wouldn't touch an uninsulated conversion with a barge pole. Those bedrooms are likely to be practically unusable and therefore worthless.

[quote Okaygreatthanks]@Suzi888 what does your external insulation look like?

I’m so sorry your house is unbearably hot that would be so annoying! I’m in NI beside the sea so more likely to be freezing my ass off at the pitiful fireside, Dickens style. (In august )[/quote]
@Okaygreatthanks it is rendered on the outside. It’s like polystyrene boards underneath with fibreglass.
It’s great in winter, very cosy. But in summer, as the front gets the sun and the back of the house is mostly glass panels / all windows (we back on to woodland, so we like the view) we are debating an air con system, but £££££ how much will that costs/upkeep etc. Even our kitchen tiles get warm
My MIL had her log burner on in August as her house is freezing all year round and very dark. Need somewhere in between!

Governments are only going to get more interested in environmental factors and pass that on to property-owners eg there is already a minimum EPC before you are allowed to rent out. I think that you need to think about the future re-sale value.
Also, if they skimped on and lied about this then what other nasty surprises are in wait?

@tilder

I wouldn't touch an uninsulated attic. It can be done retrospectively, but ripping out and redoing costs ££. You lose more height than you think even with the really thin insulation because of space for condensation.

Did it have building regs sign off if it's uninsulated?

Sorry I was unclear. Yes the loft has building regs certification but as it was done in 2000, I'm not sure if it as insulative as c durrent day standards. The EPC report also says no insulation (assumed) - I'm guessing this is because they cant physically check.

I'm concerned if the house has little/sub-standard loft insulation and solid bricks, and the glass roof conservatory, it is very hard to heat and keep warm. I dont want to be unhappy 6months of the year in autumn/winter, so wondering if theres any other relatively inexpensive options? Or if the heating bills just will double in winter?