"Sundries" cost from builder

[Kitchendilemmas]

We are in the final stages of negotiating our contract with the builder (London side return extension) and he's stuck an unexpected sum of £26K onto the costs for "sundries". This includes items like skip hire and outdoor WC, which I was expecting. What I wasn't expecting was things like:

• A site canteen
• an additional £3K of Labour costs (shouldn't these be in the actual build quote)
• £10K made up of the day rate for a project manager and separate charges for the architect to visit (we are using a design and build firm so I had thought some element of this oversight would already have been factored into pricing)
• a further £4K described as "profit and overheads"

Is this sort of thing common place now? The overall build project is £160K plus VAT, and these are a significant part of overall cost. Am I being conned here or is this reasonable?

Which part of London? That sounds very very high

We’ve just done a side return in SW London, and none of our quotes were that high, including the one from the company with project managers and architects

All the quotes were fully itemised with no random ‘profit’ numbers added on

And £3k for a canteen?! You could buy them a Deliveroo lunch every day for 4 months for less than that, total pisstake

What are the other quotes coming in at?

We're SE London, on the border between zone 2 and zone 3.

We had 3 quotes in. One was so rock bottom that we dismissed it, and the other two were more or less neck and neck until this "sundries" item got thrown into the mix.

I am planning to push back hard but wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable to do so or not!

That sounds ridiculous!!! I'm not in the building trade at all BTW. Through helping my mum get disability adjustments to her home, my previous flat having a leak and needing a complete fix and redecorate, plus doing up a derelict home currently ,I have some experience.

I can't recall the exact wording, but one quote included 'finding a suitable location to keep equipment', 'finding suitable location to store equipment', and 'finding suitable location for equipment prior to collection"!!! Utter bollocks IMO and not mentioned in any other quotes we had.

Can the builders just us your own toilet? You can hire them for £25 +VAT in Sth East, so check what they are charging for that. I'd go back and as for a more detailed quote.

One quote I queried, and they charged each separate supplier and additional 10% in 'admin' fees. SO, for them to hire the toilet, was the hire price, plus at least 10%.

How are the other quotes you've had?

Sounds like they are trying it on. I've never seen 'profit' itemised in a quote before and the notion that they are only making £4k on a £160k contract seems fanciful.

I should have said that the build includes some refurbishments elsewhere in the house so the cost for side return is approx £113K out of the £160K. We've been told that £21K of the £26K sundries relates directly to the side return.

I would rather they didn't use our toilet as we will be on site for the majority of the work, only relocating during the very messy bits. But yes a canteen feels like overkill, for a start where are they going to put it? And I'm really annoyed about these project manager/site visit charges. This was the whole reason we went with a design and build company as they assured us it would be cheaper and easier for one firm to do all of it!

I'm also not sure they meant to send the spreadsheet that showed the profit line...that number is 15% of the total sundries, and I suspect they are working to the same 15% profit margin across the whole quote. Whilst I have no issue with them making money, I do object to spurious items being added in and further inflated!

£160k!! How big is your house?!

I’d expect a single story extension (in London) to currently cost around £50-60k.

I would keep looking and strike this one out as a pisstaker

It might be worth a look through this as well - it’s a design and build magazine distributed around SW London

It’s more geared towards this area but covers Dulwich and Herne Hill which doesn’t sound a million miles from where you might be, and a lot of builders listed in it will cover SE as well

issuu.com/nappyvalleynet/docs/design___build_guide_2021__v.8_

Is that including fitting a kitchen?

We’ve just spent circa £120k on redoing our side return plus adding a small extension, but that included a handmade kitchen with every appliance and gadget we wanted plus a lot of architectural glass, Crittal doors and a utility room
Your quote sounds ridiculously high

I don't think it's usual to list profit on your quote in any business

Once you remove £21K from the side return cost, you get to £92K approx which seems more in line with the prices some of you have paid. It's also not the most straightforward side return extension as our house is on a slope. The kitchen is two steps lower than the main house, and the side return level is a further 3 steps down from the kitchen level. There's a fair bit of excavation needed to level the site (we can't build the side return up as the roof line is then too high, according to planning). I'm generally OK with the cost as two separate firms have submitted very similar quotes. It's just this sundries stuff that feels like a rip off!

Your quote sounds similar to the one we've had from trusted builders - it's all bloody expensive right now. Totally agree with PPs and your initial reaction to the sundries though, push back on those!

Ours was nearer £200k side return, extension, refurb of the rest. SW London. Expensive but excellent work and good guys.

You don’t provide them with a canteen - I’ve refurbed about ten houses and most I do is a kettle and the occasional bag of donuts! They bring their own milk etc. The rest of the stuff should be part of their initial quote. Rubbish removal, site visits etc should be in their quote. Building regs visits you may have to pay for, but that’s only a few hundred pounds. If you don’t want them to use your toilet hire one for them yourself. They really are trying it on.

Ime it’s expected that you’ll negotiate and push back on some of these costs. And don’t expect the negotiations to end there. I’ve learned to always ask “and how much will that cost?” every time I’m told about a small alteration to the plan.