Any tips for getting occupiers of house we're buying out?

[IsItAllOverYetPlease]

We want to complete by end of August but the sellers daughter and her family are living in the house. They aren't paying rent and apparently have been served a notice to vacate the property by end of August - which seems a bit formal - unsure if there is a proper tenancy agreement.

The problem is they haven't found somewhere to move to. Ordinarily they would just have to move out and sort themselves out if served notice to vacate but given they are the vendors family it makes things more tricky. I'm worried about them not finding somewhere and the vendor agreeing to let them stay longer or even pull house from the market.

The estate agent has been helping them find somewhere. Apparently they have offered on a few places but been outbid. Estate agent said they would explore other options with them.

Really don't want to lose house...or delay things.. over this

What does your solicitor advise?

solicitor has asked the vendors solicitor for an undertaking that they won't exchange contracts with us until they are in receipt of a signed tenancy agreement for somewhere else.

that doesn't overly help us to get them out though

Good old fashioned financial bribery?

It sounds like a “simple license” set up, which doesn’t require the same legal process to be followed as an AST - but unless your seller is willing to make her family homeless, it doesn’t really make any difference in this kind of situation.

If you really need the sale to conclude quickly, have you considered offering them an upfront sum equally six months’ rent to make them more attractive to landlords? Or, giving the seller an ultimatum deadline for exchange, or you’ll withdraw from the sale?

Are you able to contact them directly?

I'd be threatening legal action.

I'd start looking at other properties. You might see one you like more thats cheaper and better than the one you're waiting for.

id pull out of the sale. This could take ages and be expensive.

I don't understand. If the house is yours at the end of August don't they have to leave?

when the house sale completes the vendor will be getting a very considerable sum which I would imagine she would pass on to her family in part, maybe to buy their own place.

I guess it could be an option for us to lower the sale price and provide an up front payment instead, which might help them. I hadn't considered that before

@Bryonyshcmyony no we haven't exchanged yet so the house will not be ours until we do - which is likely to be towards end of August.

if the solicitors don't provide an undertaking not to exchange until they know the tenants wi be out, then it could be sold with sitting tenants and we would need to get a court order to evict them. definitely don't want to go down that route

@NannyAndJohn

"I'd be threatening legal action."

Really?

On what basis? They haven't exchanged contracts.

@thisisstartingtoboreme unfortunately there's nothing else on the market atm at all. we've kept an eye out but there's nothing.

[quote IsItAllOverYetPlease]@Bryonyshcmyony no we haven't exchanged yet so the house will not be ours until we do - which is likely to be towards end of August.

if the solicitors don't provide an undertaking not to exchange until they know the tenants wi be out, then it could be sold with sitting tenants and we would need to get a court order to evict them. definitely don't want to go down that route[/quote]
Ah sorry read it wrong! Good luck OP

@IsItAllOverYetPlease

when the house sale completes the vendor will be getting a very considerable sum which I would imagine she would pass on to her family in part, maybe to buy their own place.

I guess it could be an option for us to lower the sale price and provide an up front payment instead, which might help them. I hadn't considered that before

No, don't do that! What's to stop them taking your money then pulling out of the sale?

I'd pay hard ball with your vendor and tell them you need to have exchanged/completed - with vacant possession- by x- date or you're pulling out. In the meantime start looking at other options. But then I recently spent two years being mucked around by two different sellers before I eventually moved into a 3rd house we found. Is there a chain above/below you?

[quote VeniVidiWeeWee]@NannyAndJohn

"I'd be threatening legal action."

Really?

On what basis? They haven't exchanged contracts.[/quote]
I know.

But it might spook the squatters into getting their backsides in gear. Sounds as though they are only considering properties that are too expensive for them if they're always being outbid.

To be honest, the vendors need to out pressure on their family to move out. It is the vendor who will lose out if they don't if they lose the sale.

Tell your solicitor to tell the others, that unless they have the signed evidence that these people have another housing contract or have vacated the property by a date which is a couple of weeks before exchange, you are pulling out. It will then be up to the vendors to decide if they want to encourage their family a bit harder or e sale with you. Be very clear and don't be flexible or sympathetic about it being family...that is irrelevant to you and these tenants should be treated the same as any others in your mind.

Again, it shows why people should not market property with sitting tenants and why people apart from LLs who want to let the property and buy with a sitting tenant, should never offer on one with a tenant. You can NEVER guarantee a tenant will move out, regardless of any contracts or lack of. You cannot exchange whilst there is a tenant in and if they don't go, taking legal action to evict can take over a year at the moment.

To be honest, you should have made yourself fully aware of all this before offering on this property. The vendor had been greedy in trying to earn rent whilst marketing the property. LLs generally know that they need vacant posession to market and sell and having a period of time with no rental income is just all part of being a LL when you come to sell.

You don’t, the seller does and you don’t buy it until they have gone

You can’t.

And I hope you’ve got a tidy discount on this if you’re contemplating going ahead even with sitting tenants.

We viewed a house three weeks ago that had a sitting tenant. She’ll leave at the end of September, apparently. Our solicitor told us to avoid it like the plague - the house was £30k cheaper than others on the street so we took independent advice too. Everyone said to walk away. It’ll be hell to evict her, not least because of the court backlog, and to expect it to take 12 months at least, and that’s presuming it’s an AST and not a license or anything more complex.

We declined and offered on a house up the street. They’ve called us twice since - offered it for £50k less than the average for the street; and then £75k. But we might never be able to move in. It could cost a fortune, and there’s no saying what state the tenant will leave it in…

If you need to move; you either tell the seller that they need to be out by XX date or you’re pulling out, or you pull out.

It sucks, but it’s how it is. You can’t make them go; and it sounds like the seller knows they can’t, either.

You are wasting your time with this property. We were buying a house with a large family of tenants. They all moved out, or so we thought. We were due to exchange and complete on the Wednesday. On Thursday evening we found out that the older couple hadn't moved out and the EA had tried to get them into a rental, but nothing was good enough! We ended up homeless and sofa surfing. This was July and the couple were evicted in the November. We were desperate and bought a new build. We actually love it and have the best neighbours, so after much stress, it worked out for the best. The family won't be going anywhere soon and even renting takes ages for the paperwork, even if they found something now.

There might not be any properties on the market that you like today but that could change at any time.

The mistake here, would be to think you must proceed. This is not true, even though you are emotionally invested, want to move, haven't seen anything else and have no doubt incurred costs.

It is quite simply the case that proceeding with properties with tenants in them, have no end-date or certainty. It could be a year before these people are gone.....and there is no way of knowing.

I would have one last conversation with solicitor so they can relay the info. Be very clear that you need to know the tenants are exiting and the property is vacant. Give a window of something like 2 weeks, if you expect to exchange at the end of Aug. Say there is no flexibility and if either the vendors cannot say this is a realistic frame frame for them to leave, or if they are found to still be there in 2 weeks, you will be pulling out. Make it very clear and categorical...not something open to discussion.

Then it's up to the vendors to discuss this with their family. If it's an unofficial deal with the family who rent, they will be incentivised to help them move out....quite how is up to them. If their family members are like any other tenants and have standard tenancy agreements, it might not be possible to encourage them out, but proper notice and legal proceedings which can take months will needed. The vendor should have known this when marketing the property and you should have known when offering on a tenanted property.

You find yourself in this position now becaue you offered and proceeded on a property that wasn't proceedable.

I’ve bought and sold houses that have been tenanted. It’s always been no exchange unless vacant. You don’t want them out when you complete, you want them out before you exchange.

Thanks all for your advice. That's made me more confident being a bit firmer with them. We'll ask that they are out before exchange now.

You need to add a clause that there is no exchange of contracts until the property is vacant and confirmed by the EA.
I would also add that the locks should be changed after confirmation to avoid re-entry.
A dead line should also be added to avoid the process being protracted and you wasting time on removal fees etc.