Square edged floorboards

[mobear]

Has anyone installed square edged floorboards with nails instead of tongue and groove floorboards? I’m interested to know if anyone has had any negative experiences with this, as it makes it a lot easier to replace damaged boards and take them out for access, but it really seems to have fallen out of favour for new flooring. (Despite the popularity of original floorboards which are installed this way!). Thanks!

I've repaired old floors like that

the old boards tend to be thicker than modern ones.

I used to install square-edged floorboards and there are a few techniques probably no longer used by housebuilders, but I don't think they are installed in new houses any more.

old ones tend to be more draughty, because modern houses are (or should be) much dryer than in the old days when the boards went in, so the boards shrink a little in width, opening up the gap.

there are some ways to prevent the draughts, useful in houses that do not have carpets.

Sorry I went T&G, but was considering "square edge" for many months, I replaced a living room floor with 22mm solid T&G oak boards. However I used with "tongue tite" screws.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07R53TGLM/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_VCX41SRSBR906JE2RJWT?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The main advantage is you can remove the screws, if you need to adjust or lift the floor. The T&G is much better at holding all the boards level, without gaps. I really glad I didn't go square edge.

The only other tips I can give you.

1. Use a compound saw, ideally with a high tooth count, make sure it's accurately lined up.

1. Use good quality torx bits, and ideally a driver with a clutch.

Good luck!

I agree about using screws, though I personally don't see the need for secret fixing through the tongue.

If you're laying a new floor, take the opportunity to clean out the void and airbricks, insulate any pipes, do any wiring, and insulate between the joists.

You can include an access trap, in a corner away from traffic routes.

Thank you both! We are doing a full renovation so all the plumbing and wiring will be done before the new floorboards go down. Sadly I don't think we can salvage the original floorboards, so I'm trying to create the same look but with new floorboards. I found a supplier who has T&G engineered ash boards with a shadow gap and a supplier who has SE or T&G solid ash boards. I'm sure if we went with the SE we would need to properly insulate, but I feel like the floor would last us longer if we were able to take up individual boards as and when needed, with T&G, you'd always have to take them up from the edge, wouldn't you - even if the issue was in the middle?

T&G, you'd always have to take them up from the edge, wouldn't you - even if the issue was in the middle?

Yes, unless you take the tongue off one of the middle boards and top screw it. I did this on the penultimate board when fitting, as I didn't want to remove the skirting boards.

when plumbers and electricians take up a T&G floor, they first run a saw down the joint to cut off the tongues.

if the boards have been secret nailed they are quite a lot more likely to split when being levered up. if they are screwed down from above it is very easy to lift and replace.

If you are doing the rewire and plumbing before laying the floor then you could make sure there is a access board with no tongue near anything you might need to accesa in future.

Radiator pipes and socket cables most often run close to the wall, so if you have this in mind when laying flooring, you can cut the tongues off the first couple of boards along the wall and screw from above.

Where the ends of the boards run to the wall, you can use any short cut boards which will at least give you the chance to get your hand in.

Flooring under a sink or kitchen unit will be out of sight so it will not be noticeable if the boards are short and screwed for access to plumbing.

Very nice. You can get a tool to cut your own pellets from a board of the same batch, so they will be a good match.

Ohh, they look great @Mummyford

Can you suggest a supplier or do I just ask for square edged floorboards ?

Thanks everyone!

@Mummyford Did you come across any issues with the stability of the floorboards given they weren’t interlocked? That is why everyone tells me tongue and groove is better but I am not convinced it will make a significant difference.

@FinallyHere I know your comment was directed at @Mummyford but I’ve been looking at www.ukhardwoods.co.uk/ who seem very well-rated.

Thank you very much @mobear

Glad to have any contacts.

the T&G helps prevent one board dipping below its neighbour if a portly person stands on it. You may not see it, but if you have no shoes on, you can feel a ridge, even if it is only 1mm.

In an older house with square-edged floorboards, I don't believe it happens, except on boards that have been hacked about by plumbers with chainsaws. I think older floors were inch-board, which, after planing, is about 23mm thick.

I've noticed this can happen with 18mm square-edge ply as well, so I now go for 22mm or add extra struts (noggins) under joints. Ply comes in big sheets so has few joints. 25mm is preferred if tiled, as it is so rigid.

houses that have chipboard floor (which I consider a poor material) are these days often glued together at the joints, and down to the joists, in an attempt to compensate for the fundamental weakness of the board. Housebuilders love it. In totally unconnected news, it is cheap and quick to lay using unskilled labour, and will not usually crack before the cheque has cleared.

Ohh, beautiful Ash planks. And they work with underfloor heating.

@mobar

I just looked at your link, and it seems they use 25mm thickness, which from my experience I think is unlikely to flex. Some of the timbers they say 21mm, it might be that they know it is a stronger species.

@PigletJohn Thank you! I’m looking at the ash. I wanted douglas fir but decided I’d be safer with a hardwood. I know if the floorboards are nailed to the joists you need a thicker board, but not sure at this point if they would be nailed to the joists or whether we’d add a plywood subfloor. I’m thinking probably the latter but I need to speak to fitters about it. Everyone I’ve spoken to is 100% engineered and 100% tongue and groove so I’m just trying to get opinions from people who aren’t invested!

@FinallyHere Yes, those are the ones I’m looking at too!

We used to use cut clasp iron nails on softwood floors, they cut through the fibres and are said to reduce splitting. Modern techniques may be different

I have no experience of laying hardwood floors. It's not at all common.

I know someone who did it when restoring his historic home, I may ask next time we speak. I met one of his buddies who use to skip-dive looking for variations of nail.

Thanks @Mummyford, that’s the look we’re going for too. It’s a period house and I’m really sad about taking up the original floorboards so I’m trying to find some way to emulate them, and replace them in such a way that the replacement will potentially last as long as the they have!

@Mummyford I’m doing my very best to avoid underfloor heating for this reason. We’re going to lose a lot of walls though so it’s hard to find places to stick radiators. I know underfloor heating is supposed to be OK for engineered and some solid floorboards but I’m afraid of heat traps between furniture and rugs and I’d rather not be worrying about it all the time!