Extension. Dermot Bannon fans.

[notangelinajolie]

An architect has drawn us some plans for a kitchen extension at the rear of our house and after watching Dermot Bannon on Room to Improve I am feeling distinctly underwhelmed.

The plans work with what we've got. I think the plans are boring and he has been lazy and looked at the council planning site and has drawn a hybrid version of our neighbours extensions.

I must mention cost here - architect has drawn plans that are the cheapest option. Not something Dermot is known for.

We have a lovely sunny back garden and our architect has covered over a third of that space with a toilet. I feel quite deflated and a bit offended that he would think we would accept and want a cheap option. I was hoping for so much better. I thought all architects wanted to build something amazing?

Should we go back and tell him his plans are shit and get him to draw some more? Or should we cut our losses and look for another architect?

Dermot, if you are reading and want to venture into the UK please PM me

a third of that space

View of a third of that space

Go back and tell him his plans are shit and why. Sounds like he's been very lazy and he needs to know you won't stand for it.

I remember going to a friend if the family's new home and she was telling me how their architect had asked them how they spent their time. An example of his attention to detail was a thin cupboard in the living room containing her ironing board because she liked to do her ironing whilst watching tv. That's definitely not my jam, but shows how well they should know how you live.

I’ve no idea who Dermot Bannon is. But did you not discuss things like budget and vague sketch of what rooms going where before he went away and drew up plans? If you wanted a full width opening at the back of the house why did you not say so? Where were you thinking the toilet should go? There’s often only so many options for these things, there may be a reason why your neighbours have made similar choices.

He can only work with what information you gave him (and why wouldn’t the plans work with the building you’ve already got?!?), so I guess whether you’re being fair to brand his work “shit” or not, and demand a free re-do, depends on the brief you gave. What was the contract with him, does it include feedback and revisions?

No you should not tell him his plans are 'shit'.

If you know Dermot Bannon (and I'm a fan), you'll also know he's famed for unrealistic plans, which often wildly exceed budget & time. (That's what makes the show entertaining!) [those who don't know Dermot Bannon, he's an Irish architect who has a series on Irish TV 'Room to Improve'. His style (glass extensions, lots of light) & approach (engaging but disorganised) divides the nation. I love his work but understand he's hard to work with]

You go back to your architect. Surely, you provided him / her with a budget? Some ideas of what you wanted to achieve?

What do you mean about the toilet covering a third of your garden? 🤔

If there's 'Dermot Bannon' style extensions that you like, show him examples.

Sorry see your second post explains re toilet.

Hopefully Dermot will see this and come to the UK 🤞
Definitely get the plans redone . Whatever you are spending is a big investment so you need to be happy with it . Good luck

Why don’t you stick the plans here? MNers are really good in general at spotting good layout options. I think if you can communicate how you want it laid out you might get what you want. But e.g. for a loo drainage matters and can affect where it could go.

It's fairly basic to put a downstairs loo into internal space. An extension creates a deeper footprint which reduces light flow to the centre of the level, so a utility, built in cupboards, loo etc are good ways to use that darker interior space.

I'm guessing you specified OP that you would like to have a good view over the garden and good access too. You shouldn't have needed to specify full width, it is the norm these days...

I've used architects twice, once when adding a whole floor to a building and another to do a large extension. Neither listened very well to what I asked for, and both had to 'go back to the drawing board'. The extension was fine in the end though quotes came back at 50% above our stated budget so we had to lose alot of the wow factor (like glass beams).
Go back, say you'd like something more adventurous within your budget, and just have a real conversation about your expectations.

Most architects will talk to you about their ideas and then present an early draft for discussion. It sounds like this is what you've been given? It is very normal to give frank feedback at that stage.
Can you post the before and after drawings here as people tend to be love redoing.
As for Bannon, my fav is George Clarke - practical but great ideas. "Old house new home" is great.

If the outside is likely to pass planning you can just talk to your architect about rearranging the inside layout.

We're doing an entire downstairs renovation including adding about 35m2 of space that's currently an unused garage. We basically told the architect what we wanted, she did plans, we discussed them with her, dismissed some thing she likes but we didn't, she did revised plans and then we agreed. I wouldn't tell your architect his plans are shit. Just sit with him and tell him what you don't like and why and explain more what you want.

We’ve ended up with the downstairs loo having one of the best views of the garden. But there’s only so many places you can put things. To do otherwise meant moving a lot of plumbing. That added to the cost. To have had glass doors across the back was possible but would have required 3 huge steels.

More affordable is less steel and retaining the small very solid walled old kitchen as a utility rather than breaking through there.

We did specify that we wanteD as big roof lights/sliding doors as poss to bring in as much light as possible.

But moving plumbing, drains, installing big steels, big expanses of glass all cost a lot of money.

We discussed budget with the architect and he came in pretty much on the nose. We discussed what was important. He moved stuff around fairly happily.

I won't tell him his plans are shit. I know he is more qualified than me to know what will work with the space we have.

We live in a cottage but it does have a very long garden and many neighbours have had massive extensions so I don't think we are asking too much. Just a bit disappointed that he hasn't drawn us something a bit more original.
The main discussion we had was the garden and how lovely it was and how we wanted to open up the house more to see it

His phone keeps going to answerphone so I've sent him an email as it seems to be the only communication he answers and he answered saying he will get back to me by the end of the week. That was on Monday and he hasn't come back with anything yet
I will try and post the bad toilet pans.

Architect wants to put the wc/utility in the existing kitchen. At the moment we have lovely views out to the garden from here.
So the wc will cover over a third of the back of our house with a frosted glass window. It also means the utility will have no window whatsoever. And no direct access to the garden. I just don't get why he has put a toilet here.

The new kitchen will be where our cold leaky conservatory is. There is currently a downstairs loo to the left of this. Both are being demolished.
to make way for the new kitchen. It isn't a big conservatory and we've measured the space it will leave and it will be far too narrow to put in an island like the plans show.
The utility in contrast will be big.

The porch is new. It will have a door at the front of the house. DH thinks that having 2 front doors is weird and will look like a granny annex.

As I said in previous post I'm not an architect so maybe there is something I'm missing.

I agree with you. The dining table is really small compared to the kitchen island. When you walk into the kitchen from the porch you'll arrive right up against the island which will block your way.

I like the idea of having light entering the family room from two aspects. Other than that the wc is wrong for all the reasons you mentioned. The basin is under the window so you can't have a mirror over it.

It looks like he put almost no thought into it. But tell him how you'd like it improved without telling him you think it's shit and he might surprise you with much better plans next time.

Did you tell him you wanted a production-line glass box that cost twice your budget?

If not your being unfair, your architect wouldn't have known you wanted the Dermot Banon package.

I think I can see why he’s done it. Our house is v similar. I wanted to open up our old kitchen and conservatory into one big space, put doors right across the back and put the downstairs loo and utility in the dark bit.

We could have but the costs would have gone up by 50%. It’s already costing us about £125k with some other remodelling.

But it does look a bit unaamiginative to be fair.

In general, I hear more people complaining that their architect designed something over-fancy that cost triple their budget than the other way round, so at least yours seems to have some thought for what's achievable in practice.

I can see why they've done what they have with the utility/loo, but having the middle reception room so seemingly cut off from the garden is unfortunate, and I wouldn't be keen on the weird "two front doors" thing either.

I'd maybe consider putting the downstairs loo where the porch is, the utility room behind that with a door to the side for direct access outside, then the kitchen opening up across what I assume is the width of the existing footprint.

That has downsides though. Assuming the existing kitchen part is two storey, you'd need to spend much more on structural work to open up that area, with a "T" shape of steel beams and possibly underpinning to strengthen the foundations where all that load is transferred to. You'd have much more disruption to the rooms upstairs too if you wanted to avoid big downstand beams in the new kitchen by moving the steelwork up into the floor zone. This would end up very expensive if e.g. there's a recently refurbished bathroom there!

Swapping the areas over would hopefully get the middle reception room to feel more connected to the garden with more views through. It might not make it much lighter though, as it would still mainly get light from the side window and possibly a rooflight in the extension near the double doors, assuming they're glazed?

Dermot Bannon is on twitter.
I think there are architects and then there are architects with vision.

Hmm.

Unless you specified you expected to demolish the existing kitchen external walls to enable an open plan full width extension, I can see a lot of logic here tbh. I’m guessing the conservatory/existing downstairs loo that he’s demolished is an earlier addition that is more poorly constructed/has to go, whereas those walls are original and a lot more substantial? Where’s your upstairs toilet - ie. where is the existing soil pipe? Is that the current location of the boiler as well? What’s the aspect? Is the back of the new extension 6m from the back of the existing lounge, that might be your permitted development limit there, I agree there’s no thought in the kitchen layout itself, the roof light placement seems really random as well, I’d want them either symmetrical or centred over distinct functional areas, but I’d expect that to be finessed as you designed the kitchen, as nothing (sinks/hob) is marked, this plan isn’t at that stage yet.

That window behind the tiny seating area (in reality you’d just have a bigger dining table though wouldn’t you), that could be a full height glass panel, that would be nice.

Don’t knock a big utility, you can have all the messy, fiddly bits of the kitchen in there, appliances, food stores etc, and your actual kitchen will be a streamlined tidy place just for cooking and eating. A sink in there would be good, but this plan isn’t at that stage yet anyway. You could put internal glass above the doors to allow natural light in.

The 2 “front” door thing isn’t such an issue in practice tbh - my parents have this as their utility is a side/infill extension between their house and what was previously a separate garage. You actually walk past the utility door to get to the front door, but there’s no mistaking which is the ‘formal’ front door because of how they are presented, visitors don’t accidentally knock on the utility door, it’s clearly the ‘service entrance’!!! Direct access to your kitchen for unloading shopping etc will be useful.

Many bathrooms I’ve lived with have had sinks under windows as well, we just have a freestanding mirror on the windowsill, it can work very well and isn’t a real issue.

However, this is your home! If you want something that is more copying what you’ve seen on TV, then ask for that. I’m guessing you were thinking side access into a utility/WC and then on into an open plan full width kitchen/diner with an entire back wall of bifold doors and more roof lights as well? Ask for that! Do you not have your own ideas and sketches you showed him first? What were/are your own thoughts?

Our budget is 150k. We told him we wanted light and space and that the view to the garden is a very important feature. In fact we sat in the garden discussing this so he can't have missed that bit. We asked for a big kitchen, utility room and an entrance at the side where we can take off shoes and coats and bring shopping in.

We left the design up to him.

Bit scared of upsetting him so DH who is much nicer than me has been volunteered as the go between. I think we will start with asking to move the loo.

DH reckons he has designed the house to match us. Sad, tired and old. He has a point, we do look like the Clampets and not at all like people who would be wanting something fit for grand designs

How did you choose the architect? Has he done previous work that meets your vision more?

He gave you everything you asked for. Unless you said you want the entire back wall.used as a view for the garden from the kitchen.

Where did you think the utility should go so you gave access to the garden from it while not having the view taken from the kitchen.

Will you need planning permission? Not too unusual to model the extension on what's in the area of you do (means pp will be given).

If you want rooms in a certain spot or windows to take up a certain amount of space the architect needs to know that, more than a unspecified placement.