Grade II listed curtilage

[Bloomsburyreader]

How does this work- and how do I confirm that a property is within this?

Anyone know the rules of curtliage as to whether a property lies within it or not?

House we are buying is semi detached to grade II listed. We suspect that the property comes under curtilage but windows were changed to UPVC without permission. We want price of replacing these with wooden windows taken off the purchase price,

Vendors solicitor says no we are not within curtilage. Our solicitor says we are and apparently checked with listed building planners and had it confirmed (I think verbally)

We want confirmation either way before we proceed. What is the rule usually for curtilage and how long to get it confirmed in writing? There is nothing on the listing for the grade II listed property. It was initially one house and split in the 1960s when a garage was added to our half. In the 70s the other side was made listed but we suspect that ours wasn't because the garage wasn't in keeping.

We are fine with the fact it is in curtilage in terms of forward planning but need to know for the lack of permission for works up till now. We don't want to be landed with a bill to put things right and suspect that any planning application we make will bring to light the UPVC windows problem.

Obviously we will also insist on indemnity insurance

Look it up on the English heritage website, it will explain what is curtilage listed.

Ooh ok thanks loads. Will give it a go now

If it is listed, anything in place when listed counts - newer garage, crappy conservatory, whatever. They may be more minded to grant permission to change these to something more in keeping, but sometimes they like you to keep them to show how the building has evolved over time.
I own a cottage in a listed terrace - half the owners have put in upvc. I had to go through hoops to get listed building consent to replace a leaking wood window with an identical not leaking wood window. The listed building people came out to look at it and didn't say anything about my neighbours plastic windows.

we definitely wont be listed but i just cant find out if we are in curtilage or not. nothing on the listing of the property next door but as we are semi detached it makes sense that we would be considered to be part of the curtilage. I take it that the other properties on your terrace are all listed? I wonder if one isnt whether it counts as being under curtilage or not. We are ok to be considered to be within the curtilage but definitely want the discount on the purchase price if we are.

You’ve probably already seen this?

historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/listed-buildings-and-curtilage-advice-note-10/heag125-listed-buildings-and-curtilage/

Any ancillary object or structure fixed to a listed building is also treated as part of the building, again unless it is otherwise explicitly excluded in the list entry.

It’s not very clear if a semi-detached property attached the listed building counts as an ancillary structure - do you know when your property was built? The link below suggests that a structure attached to a building, such as adjoining buildings or walls, will also be covered by the listing if the structure was ancillary to the principal building at the date of listing (or possibly 1 January 1969 for buildings listed before that date).

historicengland.org.uk/advice/hpg/has/listed-buildings

The entry on Historic England will tell you when the property was listed.

You could also see if a conservation architect would be able to advise?

But surely a semi-detached house isn't "ancillary to" its neighbour. It's another entire house!

It might depend on the structure - when it was built and if it has been converted to a dwelling from a previous purpose for instance.

I think they were the same house originally because there is an indentation in the wall that looks Like a doorway. All I can find reference to in the Conveyancing docs is mention of a party wall though. There do seem to be some docs missing from the 70s referencing this but the Conveyancing docs when land on the other side was sold in the 1960s shows it as two properties. Listing of next door happened in the 70s but the properties are 19th century

You could try asking the Conservation Officer for the area. Details should be available on the council website.