Do we need planning permission for this boundary change?

[WyldStallions]

Neighbours and us have an alley between our houses. The deeds show this as belonging to the two houses. For some reason the alley extends a long way into our respective gardens. We have to enable access of our semi detached neighbour across our garden as well.

Our gardens are very small and neighbour at house A wants us to divide the alley down the midline and put gates further down so the alley doesn't extend right into the garden. The access to our neighbour will be maintained. (see diagram).

Is this as straightforward as it seems, assuming we both agree?

We have to enable access of our semi detached neighbour across our garden as well.

What do you mean by this?

If you own the alley I don’t see why not. We pulled our side access gate and fence up like you’ve drawn in agreement with our neighbour who did the same.

I suspect You’d need to agree the change to boundaries legally change the deeds and register the new title plan with the land registry. Your mortgage providers would need to consent. You’re changing jointly owned land into separately owned land.

I haven’t done property legal work for years though.

Hasa

We have no mortgage. Does that make it easier?

Once upon a time
We live at house B and are semi detached to house C which isn't shown. House C has rights to cross our garden (for bins etc). It's not uncommon here. However as long as we continue to allow access I would guess the precise journey across our garden wouldn't matter.

The precise journey would matter if it’s marked on the title plan and deeds and at some stage in the future an owner of c wants to assert a right over your new pond.

Not having a mortgage will make things simpler for you but there are three properties involved.

Of course many people would just do it and just hope it never causes an issue when properties are sold on.

Planning has nothing to do with land ownership. You would probably need a surveyor and solicitor.

If the deeds show you own the land surely you’re just moving gates and fence? I would just go for it if all happy... disclaimer: am a teacher and not of law!!

Pond? We don't have a pond?

You might not but my point was that whatever you put in that space when you turn it from alleyway into garden could suddenly need moving or changing back to alleyway if you don’t do things properly.

Check your deeds. You’ll probably find that the area labelled “access” is jointly owned. In which case you can’t just decide to split it between you. You’d need a surveyor to draw the exact boundary and a solicitor to change both of your deeds, then you’d have to register the new deeds with the Land Registry. If your neighbour has a mortgage they’ll have to agree the change of deeds with their lender. It can be done but will be expensive and probably not worth it for the small amount if land you’d gain, especially once you factor in the cost of removing the (concrete? paved?) surface of the access area and replacing it with new fencing and grass etc.

Ok. But suppose we do it, but make it changeable back if necessary, does it become sort of established after 7 years or anything?

We are talking about 75 cm extra width on each garden here. No one is adversely impacted so who could object? A new owner, in theory, if they would have liked a smaller garden and longer alleyway?

If you do this without going through official channels it could make it difficult to sell the house, or for your neighbour to sell theirs. The buyer’s solicitor would flag up that the boundary is in a different position to where it is on the deeds, and then the mortgage provider could refuse to lend the money.

No it doesn’t become established after 7 years. No matter how much time has passed, you still have to go through the legal process of claiming possession and having the deeds changed etc.

Nothing magic happens after seven years.

It is likely to cause an issue on sale and its not only your property and your neighbours affected. It’s also the property with the right of way.

Is it really worth the risk when it could potentially cause issues with a future sake? Just do it properly or leave it be.

So your neighbour might put a fence up on the boundary. They decide to use their front door only. What then? Would that impact anyone? It’s a fence in the boundary so would that be ok?

I don't understand what you gain here...the alleyway extends into the garden...not sure why but there is still a right of way. Surely if you are in agreement you can out the gate where you want?

Also are there implications for maintenance if you go from joint ownership to a dividing line. Is it built above and therefore has a flying freehold issue?

It looks to me like the neighbour in house A gains the most here. Their garden becomes a bit bigger, if they have a window in the side it's fully private, and nobody else comes through their gate. Meanwhile your garden is basically the same as before, but there is a larger part of it that is designated for the third neighbour to access across.

In these circs, I would be asking neighbour A to pay the bulk of the legal costs to draw it all up. You would want to get it checked out by your own solicitor too (likely a party wall act specialist, if they exist). I don't think this benefits you at all, but if you don't mind it, then it's also probably not worth blocking it.

Would the space left be large enough to get any equal through into the gardens? We have very narrow access to our back garden and I know it a neighbour's extension was affected by the limited access. So it could have an impact in the future.

Equal meant equipment

Hello, property lawyer here, fine to do but need to formally amend deeds at land registry. Otherwise you could both run into trouble when you sell as plan for title deeds won't match reality on the ground which will cause problems for your buyer and their mortgage lender.

If you both do it at same time you can share solicitor costs

If I was house B I would be wary of this as shortening the alley means that the right of way goes over much more of the garden and past the house (windows) directly. Which might be fine with current neighbours and you, but would be more unattractive to future buyers of ho house B, especially if you get a difficult neighbour in house C.

heron watcher it makes little difference as the current gate takes neighbour right of way directly past our patio doors anyway, but good point.

I’d be pissed if I was b, as it means the neighbour has to traverse through the garden. No one likes that.

But you need to amend the title deeds, you need a solicitor, anyone with a mortgage needs the mortgage providers solicitor to also agree.

It’s not hugely expensive, a few hundred, and take a about three months or so Dependinf on how long it takes all the solicitors for agree and rhen the land registry to change the deeds,