Evicting a tenant

[Covidmum20]

At the moment, this is one possibility of many and I am wondering if anyone can advise me of the legalities here.

Our tenant is good in many ways but is becoming increasingly demanding with regard to both what we do and the timescales in which we can do them, snd it’s causing a great deal of strain and stress.

What is our legal position here? I’m fairly sure we can’t ‘just’ evict - I’m sure I read something about this.

There is no solution that will meet the needs of first time buyers and long term private renters without regulation, and no government wants to regulate.
The answer is not and never will be unprofessional landlords offering a crap service.

There are good and there are unprofessional landlords. There are also good and bad tenants. Putting it simply, good tenants normally have more choice so choose good landlords who maintain their properties well. Bad tenants don’t have the same options, and can find themselves living in poorly maintained overpriced property.

However it is not binary, and the match is not perfect, so good tenants can find themselves with a bad landlord, perhaps because of something small like a CCJ. Whilst good landlords can have bad tenants.

As I jump over an ever increasing array of regulations, I wonder. One set of tenants laughed at me, when I asked for access yet again: HMO, EICR, Gas Safe, EPC. Their house was in far better condition than the house next door. The other landlord was probably ignoring the lot, confident there would be little enforcement.

When the sector is ‘professionalised’ and financed by pension funds and the like, I wonder who will house the bad tenants. My guess is that people like me will be driven out as margins decrease (and yes property prices do, and probably will, fall) and the workload and risks increase. The slum landlords will remain housing people, some previously evicted by social landlords, who no one else will touch.

@Needmoresleep

I've had a string of bad landlords but I'm an excellent tenant, always have paid rent in full and on time, keep the property immaculate, always polite, have even paid for stuff to be fixed that is landlord's responsibility because landlord just wouldn't, etc. My credit report is crystal clear too, no skeletons in my closet. It's not like I choose bad landlords, if I could choose a good landlord I would, but I don't seem to have any choice in this. And I feel like because I am such a good tenant, they take advantage of it and take me for a mug. So I don't understand your reasoning for good tenants usually end up with good landlords. I'm sure there are good landlords out there, but there's not enough good landlords for the number of responsible tenants. It's difficult to simply just move every 6 months, expensive, tiresome and stressful to constantly do that.

My reasoning is that good tenants have a choice. Obvious signs of a good professional landlord are a well maintained property, certification in place and clear knowledge of current law (do they check your references, ask to see your passport/identity, give you a right to rent brochure, plan to do a professional inventory and prof clean) and use a good agency (especially if the agency is responsible for managing). Better still if previous tenants are still in place, and volunteer a verbal confirmation that they are on good terms with the landlord. Rents will probably be pitched in the middle, very cheap would suggest skimping, and OTT suggests the landlord values money over quality of tenant.

Small things like the quality of appliances may help. Like other London landlords, I tend to go for Bosch appliances and Worcester boilers. Not the cheapest but more reliable with easily available parts, so cost effective given the cost of repairs in London. (I manage property elsewhere, where the equation is different.)

I don't overcharge, because I want to avoid voids, and so often have a choice of tenants. It works. All my tenants have renewed this year. Great because the London rental market is a bloodbath for landlords at the moment.

@Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep

There is no solution that will meet the needs of first time buyers and long term private renters without regulation, and no government wants to regulate. The answer is not and never will be unprofessional landlords offering a crap service.

Exactly- it’s never going to be regulated. Let’s be honest, on the news recently there have been many tenants complaining of atrocious damp in the LA properties. The damp was ruining all their belongings but still nothing was done about it. So even those huge multinational companies that are LL aren’t necessarily great at times!

@subbysammiexoxoLength of tenancy makes no difference To occupation 'rights' in england. A tenant needs only to be in for five minutes to have all the protections.

@Needmoresleep

My reasoning is that good tenants have a choice. Obvious signs of a good professional landlord are a well maintained property, certification in place and clear knowledge of current law (do they check your references, ask to see your passport/identity, give you a right to rent brochure, plan to do a professional inventory and prof clean) and use a good agency (especially if the agency is responsible for managing). Better still if previous tenants are still in place, and volunteer a verbal confirmation that they are on good terms with the landlord. Rents will probably be pitched in the middle, very cheap would suggest skimping, and OTT suggests the landlord values money over quality of tenant.

Small things like the quality of appliances may help. Like other London landlords, I tend to go for Bosch appliances and Worcester boilers. Not the cheapest but more reliable with easily available parts, so cost effective given the cost of repairs in London. (I manage property elsewhere, where the equation is different.)

I don't overcharge, because I want to avoid voids, and so often have a choice of tenants. It works. All my tenants have renewed this year. Great because the London rental market is a bloodbath for landlords at the moment.

Your reasoning isn't sound though. My landlord is merely ok, but I don't move because its close to my DS's school and I'm looking at purchasing a house and will likely buy away from this area. It's not worth the extra hassle for me and DS to move at this point. It isn't always possible to know who is a good landlord before you move in.

Having read the entire thread, I have concluded that the OP appears to know nothing about how to be a Landlord, despite claiming to be one. Perhaps this is why so many tenants have such appalling experiences.

It isn't always possible to know who is a good landlord before you move in.

Obviously, and I made that clear. My post was intended to be helpful and give a few pointers. Presumably I should not have bothered since in your view my reasoning is ‘not sound’.

Your post also suggests that you are prepared to accept an ok landlord because you are prioritising other things like location.

You are entitled to do this, but I am not sure this gives you the right to be rude about my post or indeed about me. All I was doing was trying to answer a direct question in a constructive way.

@Needmoresleep

It isn't always possible to know who is a good landlord before you move in.

Obviously, and I made that clear. My post was intended to be helpful and give a few pointers. Presumably I should not have bothered since in your view my reasoning is ‘not sound’.

Your post also suggests that you are prepared to accept an ok landlord because you are prioritising other things like location.

You are entitled to do this, but I am not sure this gives you the right to be rude about my post or indeed about me. All I was doing was trying to answer a direct question in a constructive way.

She wasn't rude. She was right.

@Needmoresleep

My reasoning is that good tenants have a choice. Obvious signs of a good professional landlord are a well maintained property, certification in place and clear knowledge of current law (do they check your references, ask to see your passport/identity, give you a right to rent brochure, plan to do a professional inventory and prof clean) and use a good agency (especially if the agency is responsible for managing). Better still if previous tenants are still in place, and volunteer a verbal confirmation that they are on good terms with the landlord. Rents will probably be pitched in the middle, very cheap would suggest skimping, and OTT suggests the landlord values money over quality of tenant.

Small things like the quality of appliances may help. Like other London landlords, I tend to go for Bosch appliances and Worcester boilers. Not the cheapest but more reliable with easily available parts, so cost effective given the cost of repairs in London. (I manage property elsewhere, where the equation is different.)

I don't overcharge, because I want to avoid voids, and so often have a choice of tenants. It works. All my tenants have renewed this year. Great because the London rental market is a bloodbath for landlords at the moment.

I've only gone for what appears to tick all these boxes but the landlord turns out to be a cunt anyway. My current place I couldn't view in person because of the pandemic, I had to sign everything before moving in. I cried when I moved in at 38 weeks pregnant and the place was an absolute state and I have worked so hard to get stuff up to scratch, it was fully managed by a reputable letting agent and my landlord has now left them and taken it on herself and won't fix anything either. So still have lots of problems. I pay the going rate, not cheap or expensive. But I can't keep affording the financial costs and emotional stress of moving every 6 months only to always wind up with another shit landlord, especially now with a baby and on reduced income (mat leave) it's difficult and I won't pass affordability checks because I'm on mat leave, even though clearly I can afford it as have been paying rent. I don't see a trend at all of shit tenants getting shit landlords and the good tenants getting good landlords... shit landlords are sadly the norm and I do think the type of characters who choose to be landlords are generally wankers.

She wasn't rude. She was right.

Fine. However it would be useful if, in the future, people could make clear that they don't want constuctive contributions from landlords.

I have been renting property for a long time. I am sucessful because my reasoning is normally sound. I stuck a number of sensible caveats in there. Things don't always match up.

As far as I can see, a rental contract is no different than any other business relationship. The most important thing is to be careful of who you go into business with, then ensure you have a proper contract, then make sure you keep to your side of the contract.

@Needmoresleep

She wasn't rude. She was right.

Fine. However it would be useful if, in the future, people could make clear that they don't want constuctive contributions from landlords.

I have been renting property for a long time. I am sucessful because my reasoning is normally sound. I stuck a number of sensible caveats in there. Things don't always match up.

As far as I can see, a rental contract is no different than any other business relationship. The most important thing is to be careful of who you go into business with, then ensure you have a proper contract, then make sure you keep to your side of the contract.

It wasn't constructive though, it was based in some fictional world.

It’s very difficult to have a sensible discussion about these matters if some people insist that there are no decent LLs.

I know that there are a small minority of terrible tenants who don’t pay their rent, or trash the place or refuse to move out. I know most aren’t like that at all. I also know that there are a minority if rogue Landlords who do t maintain their properties or provide the service their tenants have paid for. Both of these do exist. I fully acknowledge that, but also that the majority of tenants and Landlords are not like this. To say that all tenants are terrible simply isn’t true and to say there are no good Landlords simply isn’t true either. To say these things is simplistic, untrue and diminishes the value of anything accurate that the person saying them says, because it simply becomes generalised prejudice against one category of people.

I think it is the case that any LL or any tenant CAN find themselves saddled with someone who isn’t good to be in a letting relationship with. However, it is also true that there are certain things that tenants and LLs can do to reduce these risks, even if they can never be fully removed, and also that there are certain characteristics in tenants or LLs that might make them more likely to become victims to unscrupulous LLs or unscrupulous tenants.

Tenants who have to find property urgently and who are unable to visit in person (clearly Covid times have made this more common, but I’m thinking of in usual times) or who have a poor rental or reference history, or whose personal circumstances might not be so attractive to LLs, will always have less choice of property and LL to deal with. That can leave those tenants more likely to be faced with a bigger proportion of rogue LLs.

However, it is true that they can mitigate or reduce these risks by (as a previous poster mentioned, but was then shot down) ensuring they visit properties, look out for those with current tenants and speak to them about their experience, and know their rights and esnsure all of the paperwork etc is in order. Going through an agency can help make these things more likely and also always gives a further person that can be contacted if things don’t turn out to be satisfactory.

Equally, LLs can help themselves avoid some of the awful tenants by being thorough in taking up references, doing all the credit checks, meeting potential tenants in person, ensuring their property is in good condition and more likely to attract quality tenants, having all the paperwork in place and talking with them which can give a real sense of the kind of tenant they might be. It needs effort and time and involvement on the part of the LL to get a good and not the first availabile tenant. Nothing is foolsafe for either tenants or LLs, but these simple steps can reduce the likelihood of problems.

I think it’s a terrible shame if people decide all tenants are bad or all LLs are bad. It simply isn’t the case and saying it is doesn’t help improve what isn’t a perfect situation.

Positive and open relationships are what is needed and the failure to develop these is often a key part of the root of the problem when things don’t work out. Both tenants and LLs can be guilty of a failure in this area. Positive and open communication is needed before anyone offers a contract or sign one. It involves getting a sense of the other person and being willing to show something of yourself. Don’t deal with someone who won’t engage in such communication or answer the questions you need answered before agreeing to live in their property or to let them live in yours. Good and honest and open communication is also needed during the tenancy. Whilst both tenants and LLs hope to not be communicating too frequently, some communication is vital and without it again things can go wrong. Tenants need to report problems with the property and Landlords needs to communicate to get them solved speedily. It isn’t acceptable to keep quiet about a dripping shower which is wrecking the floor slowly, not to have no measures in place to get heating fixed within 24-48 (and ideally faster) hours if it breaks down. It isn’t acceptable for a LL to ignore communication from a tenant, nor for a tenant to ignore or refuse communication about organising essential and legal requirement safety checks such as gas checks. LLs need to be prepared to out the time into communicating with tenants when matters arise and to earn their rent. Tenants need to be willing to keep LLs informed so LLs can keep their property maintained. But too often, communication is poor, it is unclear, it is impolite, it creates tension and relationships deteriorate.

For me...and I’ve been both a tenant (multiple times) and a LL too, it all comes down to communication. You can tell a lot from the way someone communicates before you get into a rental agreement. It’s best to walk away from the poor communicator and wait a bit longer to find the right tenant or right LL if in doubt.

Well said Wombat. I’m a landlord and I like to think I am not a wanker. It’s been a case of when life gives you lemons make lemonade. I would rather have not lost my mother when she was in her mid 50s, or support my father through 8 years of dementia which forced me to take the reins of his 2 rental properties. When I eventually inherited them I had had a steep learning curve. I have also totally renovated the properties, gone on a number of training courses, worked at creating positive environments and relationships with my tenants. I comply with the ever growing list of landlord legal obligations. I do repairs promptly, I act on issues in a timely way etc etc. Understandably, as many people would rather not be tenants, sometimes that frustration spills over into a dislike of all landlords. There it is. I sincerely hope you all move on and are able to buy your own property. I’ve been a tenant for most of my life and I understand the frustrations.

Waves at Bob, who I know from the Elderly Parents thread where discussion on how to rent a property was far gentler.

I too managed my dad's portfolio of rental property for over a decade. It meant that not only was there sufficient income to pay for my mother's care through 10 long years of dementia, but she was paying tax. Then her estate was subject to inheritance tax. If we had simply sold the property at the outset, her funds would have run out, and the state would have had to support her, rather than receiving from her.

This though is clearly "a bad thing" for many MNetters.

As Wombat confirms, a rental contract requires a positive and open relationship. Even basic books on negotiation from the Heathrow School of Management suggest you get to understand what the other person wants from the deal and then to try to meet these needs, whilst communicating yours. If you go into a tenancy assuming that the landlord is a terrible person and communicate in the form of demands, or don't communicate at all, it will not work.

Morning@Needmoresleep! Yes the picture is a lot more nuanced than some of these threads would suggest. Agree re communication and I will bear this in mind going forward.

@GoldilocksAndTheThreePears

Eek. This is why I have several tubs under the leaks in my kitchen, terrified if I notify landlord of that and the broken oven and other issues I'll be kicked out. I wonder how many other tenants are stuck like this, with issues with housing rather than being seen as a trouble maker or demanding.

Actually you do need to tell the landlord about leaks as water damage could happen if you don't in a timely manner. It's a duty of care. No they should not kick you out on that basis, that's not the point. The point is how can they fix things if you don't tell them?