Who pays for the indemnity insurance normally? no paperwork for loft conversion.

[CatAndHisKit]

So I've just asked the vendors of the house i've offered on, for any docs regarding the loft conversion that was done before they had bought.
I've got the same in my house - and my then vendors have passed a building control certificate and a coucil ref number for the building control approval.

In this case, the vendors say they had nothing from previous owners, and this is an old conversion 'before planning permission was needed'. They also said their solicitors didn't raise imdemnity so they didn't bother etting it - they owned hte house for about 5 yrs.

It kind of implied that it's up to me to buy insurance if I want it. But I understood that it's usually the vendor who pays for it!
I don't need a mortgage but I still want peace of mind. There is no point searching with the council as they said no paperwork available. The work looks solid and no issues like a wrong size staircase or wonky floor - I will be hjaving a stuctural survey, but assuming that's fime, would I still need an insurance?

I mostly worry about selling it on in future (not a long term house) to people who meed mortgages as it's an FTB type house.

sorry for typos!

Indemnity isn’t worth anything. This is an old extension so the council aren’t going to ask you to remove the works. The legal process is all indemnity will cover. You need to know if it’s a safe conversion. I would call the council to see if they have building regs cert on the work done. If not there is a process called regularisation that the sellers can organise. It all really depends on when the works were done.

I agree with @Onandoff
The main thing is whether the survey shows issues so do get a full survey and tip them off in advance to look for anything there.
But check how long the people where there to see if their argument about timing makes sense. I can see that pp was granted on my house in the early 1980s - I can't see the docs but can see it was agreed.

If it’s an old conversion, get your surveyor to check the integrity. It wouldn’t be regularised, not now after such a long time as it wouldn’t meet current building regs. It doesn’t mean it was badly built at the time. We are buying a house with an old extension with no paperwork. Our solicitors said indemnity wasn’t worth getting as there would be no enforcement from the council after such a long time. The surveyor said the structure was fine, no signs of movement etc but obviously in the survey report he said to check building regs to cover himself.

It might predate regulations and probably won't meet latest ones, as it might not even if relatively recent. Indemnity is only useful should council enforce permissions which is not likely in one 5+ year ago .

Subbaxeo so in the end, have you just not done anything about it? I wonder how old yours was. Did you have a general stuctural survey, or a specialits engineer?

Onandoff and New the current owners only there for 5yrs but previous ones been longer, not sure ho long. That's the thing, i'm sure nuilding regs existed when it was done - I'd say by the looks of it c 2000? The current vendors aer a bit too relaxed about it all - not sure they know when it was done.
I;m also pretty sure they won't get involved in regularisation - this would onvove a long wait for a visit, a big fee i assume and also drilling and stuff? We are all pressed for time and tbh they just don't need to do this in a very ast movign market where they can find someonewho won't demand that, easily. I'm not keen either to be waiting/paying on top of paying 500 to the surveyor.
Would the surveyor be able to assess safety properly without any intrusive checks? It is a structural survey I'm booking - he said for the Victorian terraces they only do structural..

The house itself is still standing after 100+ years and you can bet it barely has any foundations, but are you worried about that? Probably not.
If there has been no issues in the last five years and the conversion is about 20 years old, then it's fine. Have you surveyor look for any stress signs, and if none then there's your answer.
My roof trusses were exposed when building regs guy came here for something else. He remarked that they were thin and rwould not meet current regulations. As I wasn't doing anything to the roof (I was replacing a failed ceiling) he couldn't make me change them, and as they'd held the roof up for over 150 years I had no reason to!

But to answer your question it is the vendor who would pay, but there's no need for it in this situation. Sometimes lawyers get too in to ticking boxes without using their common sense.

Living thank you, the consensus is that indemniu is a waste of time.
I just still wonder if the surveyor can assess the structure without invasive methods, and give a definite answerre safety/longevity?

@CatAndHisKit I think you may find it difficult to find a surveyor who will commit to saying whether it's safe or not. I could be wrong, but I don't think they'd want to take on that kind of liability. They may be able to tell you whether it meets modern building regs, but if it doesn't I think you're in hazy territory.

We recently bought a house with a 1980s loft conversion. It's been used as a bedroom for nearly 40 years and is fine, but it wouldn't meet modern building regs, and because we want to extend it we're going to have to knock it down and start again.

We got an indemnity policy when we purchased this house but it wasn't for the actual building it's for a wall outside that's over the boundary line. The sellers paid for it we didn't which our solicitor insisted upon.

We paid for the indemnity on our purchase. About £90 for a small extension off the kitchen.

Mildura and Addison - were these of a recent constuction or old? Did you know for sure that you could be sued by the council / made to redo the work, or was it more to tick the box just in case?

We bought a ours with loft conversion that was old and pre dated planning

We didn’t bother with surgery because they would have needed to remove plaster and drills holes to actually give any worthwhile answer on integrity and if it had stood that long and been ok then I didn’t see the point in worrying about it

If you’re worrying about old building work not meeting current standards, buying anything other than a new build isn’t for you.

I'm not sure how old it was the sellers had been there 3 years and it had been there before them. I think it was more a just in case however there has been an issue with someone locally claiming they own land & saying the owners of the houses owed them money which our solicitor was aware of so I believe this is why they were so insistent.

@CatAndHisKit

Mildura and Addison - were these of a recent constuction or old? Did you know for sure that you could be sued by the council / made to redo the work, or was it more to tick the box just in case?

The council only have 12 months from the date the work is finished to take any enforcement action, which sounds like it's long passed in this case.

Therefore, purchasing any indemnity is a tick box excercise, and ultimately entirely pointless, as no local authority is going to come round checking for sign off on work carried out 10-15 years ago.

If you have checked with the council and there are no br you cannot get an indemnity against enforcement.

That’s right @CatAndHisKit , we’re not doing anything about it. I spoke to the surveyor on the phone and he said there was nothing to worry about. We had a building survey done. No movement at all. The solicitor could have asked us to go down the indemnity route, but actually said the council wouldn’t do anything now so it would be a waste of money. It would have been very different if the work had been done recently-my DP got a regularisation done for wall knocked down a couple of years ago as his buyer insisted.

For ours, it was our mortgage provider who wanted the box to be ticked with indemnity insurance (HSBC). We weren't worried ourselves. I think the extension was done in the 80s or 90s. It was very badly insulated and we've since replaced it with a real extension.

Ok, this all reassurin in terns of not bothering with indemnity - thank you, all.
Subbaxeo - that was my main concern, whether the surveyor can tell you whether to worry or not - it it looks like they can, without any drilling etc! That's great, so a survey would be enough then.

YellowFish I've never lived in a new build, and have moved several times, so no I don't like new-builds. I'm not worried about it being an old house, but there is a difference between old and safe and old and 'has movement in the loft' etc. I just wanted to ask what the best path to take so I can be sure. And I'm happy with the advice here.

*this is all reassuring in terms of (ugh)

Our house has a ‘loft’ conversion - in reality it’s the loft boarded out with velux windows and a spiral staircase off the main bedroom done by the seller. It also has an extension done about 30 years ago. There were no building regs for either rooms! However, the surveyor said both were fine, the joists in the bedroom had been increased to support the loft room, and the single storey extension would pass building regs if it were being done now. However, the mortgage company wanted indemnity insurance. This came up a week before we wanted to move, so I instructed our solicitor to sort it, I was happy to pay (about £100), but once all the monies changed hands, the payment came off the deposit so in effect the vendors ended up paying.

Our mortgage lender is Nationwide-they haven’t asked for it.