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Heating 'blank slate' house - what would you do?

16 replies

BiBabbles · 18/05/2021 11:21

Recently bought a house that we knew was going to need the heating upgraded that we were treating as a blank slate. We've now had a gas engineer out that said that's for the best, as it turns out the place is even more wonkier than we thought. We've chosen to cap the gas at the meters on the gas engineer's recommendation for now, as the kitchen doesn't need gas, while we figure things out.

He found that behind our gas fire is a coal back boiler and that an old cast iron radiator upstairs in a built in cupboard is a "dump radiator" for it. That same room with the cupboard upstairs has a gas fire radiator (and piping for others in the rest, though the piping is smaller than 'standard these days') and a little electric 'sun lamp' radiator above my height on the wall. The rest of the house is electric storage heaters of varying ages with an Economy 7 electric meter with it. It's basically that the house was upgraded bit by bit over time, but anything that didn't need to come out to do it was left.

For water, there is an electric immersion heater that's not working. We think the fuse has gone as the light next to the boost switch with the fuse isn't lighting, going to try replacing the fuse and seeing what's what later in the week but we may be looking at more repairs/replacement. We've a power shower, so we're really only looking at hot water for sinks for a while. We do plan to later knock through the downstairs WC into the storage unit next to it to make into a big bathroom, but that's a 'someday dream' project that's well behind dealing with renovating the utilities now, but I'm keeping that goal in mind.

So, with this wonky 'blank slate', I'm curious what others would do and if there is anything I should look into while making choices in this. It's a 1950s PRC house, if that makes a difference.

The gas engineer recommended pulling out everything, putting in a combi boiler and gas radiators and putting an electric fire in the living room where the gas fire was since without a gas back boiler, he says no one puts in just gas fires like that anymore. He did say it might be tricky to do in a middle terrace though our current immersion heater is in a cupboard that's against the front outer wall (it couldn't go in the kitchen as that's in the middle of the house with no good way of getting to an outer wall, according to him).

My spouse is more thinking of following several of our neighbours' examples and getting solar panels (something that was a long term plan, but might bring it forward) and upgrading all the electric devices (& sigh at the heating bills), as the electrics were redone only in the last couple of years with additional circuits put in and are mostly fine (a few sockets are in need of looking at & the currently dud immersion heater), having heard our gas piping is 'not standard', he's worried how much disruption and cost that'll be, especially with a concrete house. He does not like the idea of a combi-boiler after our experiences with one in rental. He's been given mixed information by electricians he's talked to (some say that any new electric radiators need to be wired in, others say they can put in a socket for one when removing old storage heaters that some electric heaters just plug into - my spouse likes the latter). He's actually been looking at under sink units for water heating since it will be years before we get around to the bathroom project, though I'm not sure what we would then be best to do with the water tank and immersion heater.

Whether we stick with storage heaters impacts whether we should stay economy 7 - I'm in two minds, especially with 2 adults at night workers and the kids spending more and more time out of the house during the day leaving just me and the appliances that need to run 24/7.

I don't have a strong opinion, I just want something that works well that I can understand enough to have an idea when things go wrong. I kinda like the idea of cleaning up the coal back burner just for decoration/historical interest (there is already a fireplace around it, it's just cleaning what they used to cover it before they put the gas fire in) and having other heating elsewhere in the living room (the gas engineer suggested that as the fireplace isn't centered in the room, it's off to one side), but as my spouse says, I get a 'fondness' for things like that but am often swayed if something else is more practical to the point it saves others effort.

OP posts:
Rollercoaster1920 · 18/05/2021 12:06

10 years ago I was in a similar position but a brick house, and put in a gas combi boiler driven radiator system.

That is the standard approach. You would probably need to sort the insulation before looking at air source heat pumps or solar.

Porridgeislife · 18/05/2021 12:30

If this is a forever home, I’d probably go with your plumber’s advice on combi boilers. Modern combis are really good and usually rental landlords aren’t known for pushing the boat out on getting a quality boiler.

If its not, I’d be taking advice on a ground/air source heat pump. There’s a pretty big risk that new gas boiler installation will be curtailed within 10 years & it will become a sore point when selling. Heat pumps are really simple, much easier than a boiler to get your head around but there is a cost to installation as you need to factor in new radiators and insulation.

YellowFish12 · 18/05/2021 12:52

Heat pumps are really simple, much easier than a boiler to get your head around

Huh? You ask 100 people on the street “what does a Combi boiler do” and 99 will tell you it heats your home and water!

Hardly any homes have heat pumps and I don’t think many people are aware of them.

If I was putting in a new heating system in a house with good mains pressure and only 1 or 2 bathrooms I would put in a good quality Combi boiler and new radiators throughout with thermastatic valves. I would also put in a smart system such as Nest so that you can control heating in different rooms/zones.

YellowFish12 · 18/05/2021 12:53

Also it’s a terrace house! Where on earth are then meant to put the ground source or air source?! Air sources need somewhere sunny and they are ugly, bulky and noisy.

BiBabbles · 18/05/2021 20:55

Interesting responses so far, looks like my poor spouse is getting outnumbered on here but I kinda expected that.

It's a terrace with a small garden & a one small car off road parking, and no way of getting machinery to the back so anything that involves digging up things is likely not an option. We've great insulation where we can get it, but PRC houses as they are, it's never going to be airtight. Our EPC has the best we can get as a C.

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TobyHouseMan · 18/05/2021 23:47

What @YellowFish12 said.

If you have the water pressure and flow then a gas combi in a terrace house with a single bathroom (or maybe two) would be ideal - and the cheapest by far.

Don't get concerned with the talk of banning Gas boilers. They not going anywhere soon. Think how many homes have them - we couldn't possibly switch them all to electric overnight - we would need to double the number of power stations!

Lonecatwithkitten · 19/05/2021 05:25

If I had funds I would go with solar panels for as much as possible, but with gas boiler as back up. My DH's old family home rarely used his gas boiler to heat water his solar panels provided his electric, heat his water and in summer sold power back to the national grid. He actually made money on energy rather than spending it.

Landlubber2019 · 19/05/2021 05:34

We have solar panels and they are great, provide a lovely financial boost as part of a government initiative, however that is no longer available. We don't use store any energy from the panels and we sell back to the national grid for something ridiculous like 0.03p per unit. I wouldn't consider getting solar panels now and ultimately you would need a storage arrangement otherwise I would presume you will have no electricity on full days/overnight.

In your position I would look to follow your gas engineers advice.

Pepperama · 19/05/2021 05:39

Heatpump definitely - environmentally friendly and if you add it now you won’t have to change it in a few years when regs come in to ban gas heating. So much easier to install from scratch. Retrofitting can be difficult/messy but doing it now will save you money and there’s good grants to help.

rwalker · 19/05/2021 05:46

Gas combi heat pumps at the moment very expensive.
There a totally different way of heating insulation is key and they normally run all the time giving background heating gradually building up.
Gas you flick a switch and its instant burst of heat doesn't take long to get house up to temp .Heat pumps don't have that instant burst of heat.

MarieG10 · 19/05/2021 05:51

Forget a heat pump with that type of house. It needs to be incredibly heat efficient or you will be freezing.

I'm not a combi fan but for a small house like that I think it is your best option. Electrify is 4 times the cost of gas so it won't take long for your sums to add up

Also, I changed our boiler 5 months ago to a new Vaillant. I am staggered at the reduction in our bas bills. I am looking at circa 40% which given the cold snap we went through is amazing. Wish I had done before now but yes it works...large detached and house is nice and warm

De88 · 19/05/2021 08:11

Can you get a Green Deal assessment- should cost you nothing but you'll get some proper advice?

BiBabbles · 19/05/2021 20:16

No Green Deal assessors in our area. We're looking into our local City Energy Saving Programme, which does surveys for Energy Company Obligation & its own interest-free small loan scheme.

The house is a 4-bed (EPC says 94 square meters), not sure if that counts as small or would affect what others would do. Some things I haven't thought of, I apprecite it.

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YellowFish12 · 20/05/2021 00:04

@Pepperama

Heatpump definitely - environmentally friendly and if you add it now you won’t have to change it in a few years when regs come in to ban gas heating. So much easier to install from scratch. Retrofitting can be difficult/messy but doing it now will save you money and there’s good grants to help.
What are you talking about ‘have to change it in a few years?’ I think you have misunderstood how any changes to approved installations would be applied - prospectively not retrospectively.

There’s not a snowballs chance in hell that gas boilers will be banned retrospectively and men will come into your house and searching for naught gas and ripping installations out 😂

Potentially banned in new builds at some point in the future - yes.

Zero chance they will be banned in a way which would give you problems when selling or require you to rip out your existing heating system 😂 crazy we haven’t even got round to banning the sale of petrol cars yet.

YellowFish12 · 20/05/2021 00:05

Also it would be incredibly un-green to rip out snd trash millions of people’s heating system to replace with something else given the carbon coat of materials...

BiBabbles · 21/05/2021 11:44

There’s not a snowballs chance in hell that gas boilers will be banned retrospectively and men will come into your house and searching for naught gas and ripping installations out 😂

😂😂 I laughed far too hard at this, the mental image was great thanks. The shock they'd have coming for our naughty gas installations to find the coal back boiler, all the fossil fuels to blow their minds.

And you were right earlier about the heat pumps - I was showing my spouse the thread and he went 'what are heat pumps and why are they all recommending them?'. For me, I prefer something I can understand and easiest handled if it breaks.

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