Extension timeline - help with process

[Sideofnoreturn]

Our fixed term mortgage expires in May 2023, so 2 years from now. We’d like to remortgage to fund some fairly extensive renovations (side return extension + loft conversion) that will probably need planning permission. I think we’ll need an architect and I know that builders are also really booked up atm, but also don’t know quite what our budget will be until we speak to the bank. I’m really confused about what order to do things in and when we should start. If anyone has done similar recently it would be great to have a rough idea of timescales.

If relevant the house is a Victorian end of terrace in London.

Get builders quotes first, at least 3 if you can. It's taken ages for us to get quotes out of people but we're inching our way to getting started this year. Once you know how much what you want to do will cost, you can see if the bank will lend it to you, and look to trim your project accordingly if you need to.

Thank you. We don’t really know what we want to do yet even to get quotes so I guess that means appointing an architect first? How long does the process with an architect take?

If it’s a big project I would recommend finding the architect first. Get the layout sorted with the architect. Then you can ask the architect to do a scope of work which you send to potential builders. This way they are all quoting to the same spec and nothing major has been left out.

Of course you can do the scope of work yourself, but for that you need to be confident that you know about all the nuts and bolts of building work and will include everything in the spec (including the hidden bits like insulation, exactly how new floors/walls are constructed, stuff required for building regs etc).

Start making a list of potential builders at the same time though, and find out about their interest/availability for the project, but don’t get full quotes till you have the scope of work.

I would say our big building project took a year to plan/discuss with architect/get builder quotes and planning permission/wait for builder to be available, and then best part of another year to actually do.

Sorry that wasn’t terribly clear.

Process we followed, roughly (might be not quite this order but broadly)

1. start making a list of things you want to do to the house
2. find architect and make shortlist of builders
3. discuss plans with architect, making as many big decisions as possible
4. architect drafts scope of work, we check builder availability/reviews
5. start planning application
6. send scope of work to selected builders for quote
7. choose builder and book them in for x date (several months away)
8. make remaining decisions and any changes & finalise builder quote/contract
9. start work...

Oh yes party wall notices come in there somewhere too, at least 2 months before starting work.

@minipie thank you SO much - incredibly helpful and exactly the info I needed. How many architects did you speak to?

We recently started a similar process. We met with two architects, chose one and arranged a measured survey. When the measured survey comes back, the architect is going to draw up three plans for us to choose from, then they'll do technical drawings, party wall, planning, then we'll tender to builders, and begin the build. Very similar to what @minipie has said above.

We are in the process, we got the architect first to come and look and give us some sketch ideas £65. Then estate agent to value before/after and comment on layouts as we are planning on selling in a few years.

Next planning permission/coordination/drawings from architect £900 this will give us something for builders to price.

Although we plan on doing the work ourselves, I’m a QS my partner is a proj manager. There are websites which will give you a budget cost per m2 based on single/double storey extension and whether it contains a kitchen/bathroom.

We only spoke to two architects - but really liked one so looked no further! Tbh I kind of knew what I wanted layout wise already.

Yeah it would be much easier if I could visualise it better myself. There are a few complicating factors and also some options that are budget dependent (I’d like to incorporate a utility room which could be beside kitchen or in the cellar if we can afford to convert that too) so it’s all a bit circular. Perhaps chatting to a few architects is the way forward.

We are going through this at the moment. Definitely start with architect. You will then have a good idea and appreciation of the square metres you will be adding which should give you a quick rough indication of cost.

In parallel, we also have a spreadsheet with our mortgage and know how much we are paying off each month so in your case you will know how much you owe in 2023 giving you an idea of how much you can borrow. Banks will have their limits but our bank can give an advance up to 90% LTV. At the same time for affordability many banks lend a maximum of 4.5 times income so you know roughly how much funds you can get from maxing out the mortgage. Assuming no other financial commitments. It is currently the cheapest form of borrowing so it is our best option.

When we submitted for planning, our architect also prepared a specification with the planning drawings and sent them off to a few builders to give us an estimate. I understand that many builders won't even quote until you have more detailed drawings. Only one builder came back so that gave us a figure to go to the bank with.

We are on Building Regs at the moment with the Structural engineer doing the calculations to add to the BR drawings before we submit to council. We have also shared the BR drawings with a couple of builders this time hoping for quotes as much detail is on the drawings. We hope to start work in autumn.

Agree..start with architect. Waste of time seeing a builder as they can't give you any true ideas u til they actually see the building regulations drawings. Your architect will give you an idea of price...and in my experience add 30% on to it at least!!

Ours took 14 months from booking in an appointment with several architects, getting planning, building regs drawings and structural calculations completed and builder starting. There was a 5 months delay to builder starting from when tender awarded....but that helped as he negotiated on the price knowing he could start another job as soon as he finished the current one. He was a brilliant builder as well.

Make sure you have a really comprehensive tender document which is built into the contract. Don't just rely on the drawings. You literally need to specific everything...ie the drawings will allow for foundations 1 metre deep. Ensure he includes in the price any charges for each additional 10 cm depth....as this is expensive. We eventually went down 2 metres.

Likewise the electrical fittings...the price between cheap crap and decent quality is significant, as is windows. We latterly included the Velux code for the exact window in ours

As a result, our build of 6 months was a challenge but builder a delight and never any issues.....he said having a contract like that was easier

We did lots of things in parallel. Including talking to bank to get an idea. Had architect and builders round. Builders didn’t quote except very roughly till we’d had full plans done then we went to tender ran by architect.

But it was helpful as they were good on pitching ideas to our budget, the big sunny open plan extension I wanted would be compromised by the amount abd cost of steels required, having to leave a big pillar unless mega spends.things like that. And suggested other things we hadn’t thought of.

Factor in building control costs, planning, finishes, architect fees, a contingent, lighting costs, outside paving, putting garden back (our garden was destroyed) We had a full list drawn up ourselves of costs fairly quickly that we refined and checked with architect. It wasn’t fair off the final tender.

It really helps to get the costs established as quickly as possible, a lot of it you can estimate for yourself. Then you know whether you have to scale back plans.

We are paying ours out of savings and income in the end and have staged the extension and loft work to manage payments.

Can you stay in the house while the work is done ?

Thank you so much for the helpful replies - it’s a big job! I don’t think we can stay in the house while it’s done, or at least maybe we could but it would probably be really stressful and delay everything. Kids will be 5 and 3 when we’d like to start the work.

LTV is about 50% so we should be able to release enough equity to do it all. We’d originally planned to wait 10 years rather than 5 but we’d rather have the big kitchen space while the kids are small for homework and supervising them while cooking etc.

Certainly agree about doing sooner than later if you have small kids and can afford it. Ours were teenagers and the extension created a huge room across the back of the house which meant a massive kitchen and island, large seating area with TV and also a dining area around a corner. We have a delegate large lounge and utility.

We have loved it ever since and during lockdown just felt like a release from the cooped up experience a lot of people had. We have large 4.5 M doors looking out in the garden so when they are fully retracted it just feels like being in the garden as the floor is continuous virtually.

We lived in the house and the builder was amazing at sealing off the build with temp walls and even taping the edges to reduce dust. We Halle Ed to be away in holiday for a week at the worst point when we lost the temp kitchen but came back to it fitted as a utility which worked with temp elec camping etc. We managed surprisingly well

Kids are now 17 and 20 and means they have a delegate space and when a girlfriend is here we can still have our own living area.

I had this same problem as I was purchasing a property that needed a complete refurb and extensions (side return and loft). I used a company called home tales and they were incredible. They gave me initial advice during the purchase process and I got them in to measure as soon as I got the keys. Created designs with them and they gave me advice to keep me on budget and then they managed the build (found the builder and project managed). Couldn't recommend them highly enough www.hometales. co.uk

I disagree slightly. You need some idea of what you can borrow before you start talking to architects or builders. Otherwise you could just be completely wasting your time (and money). You can then instruct an architect properly (and then add 30 percent to what they tell you it should cost).

Definitely get plans and a spec of works in order to get realistic quotes.

I gave our architect a budget of £250k for our renovation. Lots of lovely plans and detailed drawings. The few quotes we received were in excess of £400k and that didn’t include things like the actual kitchen! We’ve now had to revise the plans and spec to fit both our budget and the ceiling price for the road!

That’s quite common which is why you need to know your max budget before you start. Architects are very good at spending extra money for you. We started with a budget of £150k for our current work which the architect says was fine and realistic and we are now at well over £250k..

Wow those are big budgets @RoseDelatour and @HasaDigaEebowai - what were you doing? I had c.£150-200k in mind for ours but perhaps unrealistic.

Mine is a 4mx7m kitchen extension plus a small 5m x2m side extension plus garage conversion but also includes new windows, flooring throughout, new kitchen, new boiler and some other stuff. Things are expensive at the moment, prices are continuing to go up as stock levels get lower and lead times are long.

@Sideofnoreturn we don’t need to extend, so it’s all internal updates...changing all the radiators, 4 new bathrooms, new kitchen and utility, rotating direction of the staircase, removing a couple of walls (2 RSJs) and moving some doors, a new stud wall. The £250k needs to include new windows and 4 sets of French doors (quotes for those are all around £50k) and internal redecorating (£20k approx). I haven’t even got to the stage of costing up the landscaping/patio 🙈

That’s a lot! I’ve kind of thought the loft would come in at about £50k and then side return £100-150k depending on spec.

Did you speak to estate agents re valuation too? We don’t plan on moving any time soon but I’d also worry that if we spent much more than £200k we might not make that back if we sold.