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Original poster

Perfect property has massive oak tree in front garden

95 replies

zippyswife · 07/05/2021 10:35

Firstly I'm clearly very naive and clueless when it comes to trees.

We put in an offer and had it accepted on a property which is perfect and in a lovely leafy area.

I took my mum to view it and she pointed out that the massive oak tree in the front garden 3-4 metres from the house could be a problem. We've had such a nightmare time of moving and I was so excited that an offer had finally been accepted on a property but now I don't know if I should be touching it if there's potential problems.

Dh says it's no big deal as the tree was there a long time before the house (house built in 70s). He thinks I'm overreacting.

We've spent over 2k on survey/solicitors on a property that fell through as the vendors changed their mind so I'm keen not to waste more time/energy/money on this.

Any advice would be really welcome.

OP posts:
PresentingPercy · 08/05/2021 14:49

The structural survey is down to you and any further investigation if needed. The sellers might have info about foundation design. With correct design it’s not a massive issue.

Quincie · 08/05/2021 16:12

We had subsidence due to Lelandii trees- house built pre 1900 and no real foundations . Very luckily the surveyor did not log a slight tilt to the upstairs window surround stones. So no previous subsidence was noted. So we were able to claim costs of having underpinning done.

PresentingPercy · 08/05/2021 16:24

1900 foundations or lack of them isn’t the same as the 1970s when a house is built knowing a mature oak is there. Totally different eras and scenarios.

Wingedharpy · 09/05/2021 12:48

@zippyswife : For reasons which I won't bore you with, I'm currently doing a lot of reading around subsidence damage to houses - causes and repair strategies.

I can't do the linky thing but, I came across "Repair of subsidence damage: An insurers perspective" by a chap called Deakin from 2005.
In it he has an extract from a table of guidelines as to the influencing distance of trees from properties, based on evidence gathered by Kew Gardens.

I appreciate that an insurer will be far more risk averse that a potential home owner, but, it does highlight the need for caution - which you knew anyway, hence your post.

The distance for Oaks, is listed as 30 metres!

For interest only, other trees mentioned and their influencing distances are:

Maple : 20metres
Lime: 20metres
Cypress: 20metres
Apple/Pear: 20metres
Ash: 21metres(approx)
Plane: 21.5metres(approx)
Horse Chestnut: 22.5metres(approx)
Elm: 30metres
Poplar : 35 metres
Willow: 40metres.

Now, if anyone has any information about soil erosion around shallow Victorian foundations, how to fix it and dealing with insurance company when lodging a claim, do share!

Liliolla · 09/05/2021 13:03

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MusicMenu · 09/05/2021 13:16

Have you contacted any insurers yet? We tried to buy a house that had a willow that close and even though it was on council owned land (so theoretically the council would have been responsible for any damage) insurance companies wouldn't touch it. No insurance = no mortgage.

WorriedMutha · 09/05/2021 13:45

We bought a house with a massive tree at the end of our garden. It didn't pose a threat to our house but it was lifting up the neighbours drive and cracked the wall of their garage to the extent the doors wouldn't lift up. Thankfully there wasn't a TPO. Even so you can't just chop down a massive tree. It drinks tons of water every day and the resultant increase in the water table from its sudden absence would cause soil heave which could then result in more property damage. A competent tree surgeon advised that it be lopped back and reduced by a 1/3 annually so that it was eventually removed over 3 years.
You really must get this checked properly before you move. Ask a qualified tree surgeon to drive by and give you an opinion. This would be cheaper than having a full structural and then finding you can't get buildings insurance or a mortgage. I was also given to understand that the roots underneath are as extensive as the branches above so it is likely that they are already enmeshed in the buildings foundations. Another reason why the tree would have to be lopped back in stages.

changeruset2748 · 09/05/2021 14:07

Can you do a dummy house insurance quote? I think one of the questions asks if there is a tree higher than 10m within a set distance of the house (or is it within 10m of the house?!) either way I'm sure they usually ask a tree question.

PresentingPercy · 09/05/2021 14:29

@Wingedharpy
You are not a structural engineer though are you? You are not aware of design modifications for foundations and dealing with subsidence.

If a property has insurance you continue with it. If house has a problem, get it monitored and claim. This is no big deal as long as house is insured. It is possible to insure houses with trees nearby. We do.

PresentingPercy · 09/05/2021 14:31

In all scenarios. Get professional advice.

Wingedharpy · 09/05/2021 14:44

@PresentingPercy : I wasn't masquerading as a structural engineer at all.
I was merely drawing OP's attention to the document I'd read.

As for "If a house has a problem, get it monitored and claim. This is no big deal as long as house is insured" - I'd only agree if it was someone else's house and not my own.

As a home owner at the beginning of a "monitor and claim situation" (nothing to do with trees despite the avenue of poplars at the end of our garden), it feels like a hell of a big deal to me.😥

I'm praying you work for my insurer PresentingPercy.

WorriedMutha · 09/05/2021 14:51

You might not think it's a big deal to claim for subsidence but it's quite common to see very hefty excesses on these claims and it's also a big turn off on resale.

PresentingPercy · 09/05/2021 15:36

You agree excess when you insure. That’s standard. Everyone knows there is an excess.

DH is a structural engineer and, to any consultant engineer, these claims are no big deal. Yes, householders worry but half the time it’s because they read stuff on the web instead of instructing a professional. It’s a bit like seeing a consultant in a hospital. You wouldn’t avoid seeing them and doing diy instead. So why worry if you think you have a problem? Get appropriate advice and if you’d insurance company won’t play ball, instruct your own engineer to advocate for you. With any house ownership, there are expenses you cannot always foresee. But all this worry can be avoided for most people if they understand it’s meat and drink to professionals. Often though, not employed by cheap as chips insurance companies. You need a consulting engineer to guide you.

PresentingPercy · 09/05/2021 15:37

Underpinned houses are very good for resale. No more claims and the house is stable. The work is done. So at least get your facts straight.

MusicMenu · 09/05/2021 15:46

The problem we had wasn't the size of the excess, it was the that insurers simply wouldn't take the house on.

MeanMrMustardSeed · 09/05/2021 16:08

I love a tree but i also would be very cautious. You've said (at least twice) that the tree dwarfs / swamps the house. This suggests it’s way too big to be within a few meters of a house. I would be concerned about the roots re the foundations and the branches. I also love a garden and with the tree sucking up all the water, this would br limited.

To the PP dramatically purporting a million species in a single tree, there are only about 70,000 species in the UK in total.

MeanMrMustardSeed · 09/05/2021 16:18

^ ignore my second para - PP didn’t say a million species. My mistake! Sorry.

Whitney168 · 09/05/2021 16:19

We have a huge oak in a neighbours garden, husband would also say beware leaves and acorns ...

Adding to the other good advice from many posters above, given the time of year, can I ask whether you viewed the house with the tree in full leaf too? If not, is it likely to make the house much darker than you expect?

PresentingPercy · 09/05/2021 16:31

You should make sure the vendor deals with any claims on their insurance. If a house has a structural engineers report and is sound, it can be insured. If you need work done, arrange to set the wheels in motion. Plenty of houses have trees near. Never buy a house that’s not insured or has been refused insurance. If yours has, then changes to foundations might need to be made but you don’t know unless it’s investigated. So you either have to spend money or sit in an uninsured house.

PresentingPercy · 09/05/2021 16:32

What happens in tree lined streets regarding insurance? Often those trees are 4-5m from houses.

Wingedharpy · 09/05/2021 17:10

To be fair PresentingPercy I can see why it would be no big deal if you are cohabiting with a structural engineer.

Fecking terrifying if you live with a postman though!

Original poster
zippyswife · 09/05/2021 17:31

Thanks for all the advice. It's all good and I appreciate the different perspectives.

To the poster that suggested the tree may make the house dark- this is an excellent point I hadn't considered. The house has a west facing garden abs the tree is in the front so it shouldn't have too much of an impact. Although I could be wrong.

So. Am I right in thinking this is what I need to do? ... and is this the correct order

I need to make enquiries with the vendors-
Have they been able to insure property
Have they made claims against insurance
Has their been previous subsidence/underpinning

I need to contact insurance company and get a quote(s) for property to gauge the insurance premium taking tree into consideration

Arborist to assess health of tree

Full structural survey

Am I missing anything?

Dh has shrugged and says he can't see the big deal, so you have all really helped me. Thank you.

The house is great. The tree is lovely. But I just need to jump through the above hoops right?

If there are problems after we have bought it is it easy enough to claim? Would it significantly affect our ability to resale?

Sorry for all the questions!

OP posts:
Proudboomer · 09/05/2021 19:07

My house is the off the very edge of a conservation area full of holm oaks. They were planted in the 19th century by David Lyon and is one of the most well known avenue of oaks in GB. The only thing I don’t like about them is that they are deciduous evergreens So you never get a break from the dropping leaves so you need to invest in a decent leaf blower plus I do a sweep of the garden a couple of times a year to check for any seedlings and get them out before they have a chance to take hold.
All the houses in the area post date the planting of the avenues and I have never heard of anyone having structural issues. My house is the nearest to the oaks and so if there was any issues with roots then my house would be affected which it is not.

SnowdaySewday · 09/05/2021 19:38

Don't contact the vendors, make all your enquiries via your solicitor.

Elouera · 09/05/2021 19:47

You initially need to find out if there is a preservation order on the tree.
www.gov.uk/guidance/tree-preservation-orders-and-trees-in-conservation-areas

I agree, you don't ask the vendors! They are hardly going to tell you about leaves blocking the gutters, the sap, subsidence etc!

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