Neighbour misusing access pathway - what to do?

[Hedera]

I moved house recently. It's an end terrace in a block of three. My neighbour (in the middle) accesses his back garden via a pathway that runs down the side of my house/garden and along the bottom. This is all in the deeds as 'a right of way at all times (but on foot only) over and along that part of the side and rear passageway as is coloured blue hatched black on the said plan and is included in the said property'. So the pathway is my property, but my neighbour has a right of way. I knew this was the case, and when I viewed the property last summer the pathway was clear if somewhat neglected. So far so good.

On moving in last month, I have discovered that the neighbour has a large quantity of logs stacked in the passageway - complete with corrugated plastic roof to keep them dry. The rear passageway is full, with a smaller amount starting to fill up the side passageway.

I have googled as much as I can but can't find a clear answer as to whether what he's done is ok, and I want to be really sure of the rights and wrongs of the matter before I tackle him. I made enquiries about advice from a solicitor, but they estimated thousands even for initial advice. :(

I hope someone can help?

Do not let him store anything or make any kind of situation where he can claim adverse possession. He may be totally benign or he may be trying to play the long game of acquiring the actual land to access his own back garden rather than having the inconvenience of having to exercise a right of way. If you let him store stuff there and basically use it only for himself you risk devaluing your own investment.

@SoupDragon

How about the NDN stores their wood beyond your gate only?

Would you be happy with a neighbour storing stuff on your land?

I think that's what he's already doing? The structures are only passed her gate

But it shouldn't matter-it's here land. She may want to move her gate further down her garden or get rid of the fence and incorporate the alley into her garden but leave the access? Is say this as my parents have a similar set up but the alleyway isn't an alleyway, it's part of their garden. They've turfed it but the neighbour can come through when he likes and keep to the learned edge. They are on very good terms though so I'm sure if neighbour ever sold, a fence would go up!

@4PawsGood I've just obtained a copy of his title plan and deeds. The plan definitely shows the pathway is not his property (red line just goes around his house/garden), but there's nothing in his deeds about a right of way over my property. Perhaps it's not mentioned because it's an additional access, not the sole one?

@nickymanchester There's lots of these little access pathways on the estate. Maybe it was the thing to do in the late 70's? Some go to several houses, some (like mine) just one. I think the fence arrangement is original - for privacy and security?

@Aalvarino Yes, I had wondered about potential devaluation, or at the very least causing some awkward enquiries from a purchaser's solicitor in the future. I will definitely not ignore the situation, but wanted to know as far as possible where I stand before I approach him.

I wasn't being goady about asking what the OP needed to use it for, I was trying to picture what the alley was for! I was wondering of it was used all the time by the OP !!!

Geez!!!

This exact thing happened to me. Mine moved the gate to enclose the path in his garden, but it was on our deeds. Then filled it up with bins and storage shed type things.

We knew that we would be screwed when we wanted to sell so bit the bullet and told them the path was on our deeds and as such we were responsible for its maintenance so they couldn't store things on it or enclose it.

About five years later he did the same thing again and we had to go through it all again.

Do you use the path.? Looks like it's totally fenced both sides.?

So if you don't use it what is the issue with the logs.? I think it's being petty and is it really worth starting a fight with your neighbours over.?

It happens a lot in old terraces too - my aunt and uncle have to let their neighbours through their garden as that was the route to the old privvies - there are four houses and there were two privvies to share. They are no longer there but the neighbours use the rule to take their bins round to the front on bin day so that they don’t have to take them through the house.

@InkMaster Oh goodness, I'm sorry you had to deal with that twice from the same person. Why do people think they can get away with this? I wish the deeds were clearer/more specific and I wish there was some easy legal stuff I could wave at him to solve the problem. I think he's keeping his head down at the moment and hoping I'll forget all about his log hoarding issues.

I agree with others that a right of way does not give him the right to do this.

However before you get into a dispute - is it actually a problem for you? Do you need to do something back there? Are you worried about fire risk. I guess I'm asking what's the issue.

Are the logs damaging your walls or preventing you from accessing anything? If not then I would just not worry about it. He might be " breaking the rules" but if he isn't doing any harm then the workload and stress you will cause yourself will be way worse than the fact that there are some logs piled up in an alleyway which you own but don't use.

Sorry. Didn't mean to be blunt, just pointing out that your time and mental anguish are also important when working out what to do next.

For those saying 'what's the issue?' the OP would need to check whether he could claim adverse possession over the land - basically if he uses it as if it was his for 12 years, he can claim it.

Also, the fence is only there for privacy, presumably. If the OP wanted she could take the fence down and have him walk across the back of her full length garden. There is so much wood I think it would make it very awkward if the OP was to wheel a bike in and out, for example.

OP, I would be tempted to tell him that you have plans to remodel the gate and alley in order to get your bike in and out and you would like him to use up his store of logs b the end of next winter, and not add any more or put other stuff on your land.

@Indoctro

Do you use the path.? Looks like it's totally fenced both sides.?

So if you don't use it what is the issue with the logs.? I think it's being petty and is it really worth starting a fight with your neighbours over.?

Are you having a laugh? It’s not in the least bit petty. The neighbour is storing logs on the OP’s land and is clearly trying to pull a fast one.

I’m genuinely astonished at the wet lettuces on here who think the OP should just suck it up unless she actually ‘needs’ her access to avoid upsetting a massive piss taker.

I would start by asking him in a civil fashion to remove his log store from your land. Depending on how he responds to that dictates your next steps.

Be prepared for excuses and how to argue against them.

‘It’s not in your way, is it?’
Answer: Yes, it is so you’ll need to move it.

‘What do you need to bring down the alleyway?’
Answer: That’s irrelevant, your logs are blocking access and you need to move them.

‘I haven’t got room in my garden’
Answer: That’s not my problem, you’ll have to find alternative storage.

‘Can’t you just let me keep them there? They’re not in the way.’
Answer: They are in the way and as it’s my land, I can’t let you keep them there.

Don’t let yourself be railroaded into alternative solutions to keep the peace. The logs need to go, end of story. If he won’t remove them, you will. Be firm, don’t try to be apologetic or nice or accommodating.

@Fleabagforlife

We had exactky the same situation, and took solicitor advice.

We were advised to put it I writing (keep a copy) and sent via recorded post (felt daft) to say the neighbour did not have permission to store anything and quoted the rights of access passage.

Neighbour was shitty before when I politely asked him to move it (my DH couldn't get his bike past the stuff that was there to access our garden) but he moved it all after the letter.

I'd do this, in writing, keep a copy, send by registered post.

My understanding of right of way is that they need to be kept clear - I have one over my garden and have the right over the two gardens next to me. But I never keep anything on that part of my garden to obstruct the path, and would object if my neighbours did.

Adverse possession hasn't been a thing people can claim for many years now

@Geneticsbunny

Adverse possession hasn't been a thing people can claim for many years now

Indeed. Like TPOs (which some MNers think you can just call the council and ask them to slap one on your neighbour’s tree), adverse possession is one of those things people have literally no idea about but post anyway.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land

Health and Safety OP, is your argument.
Fire hazard and ideal home for vermin - lots of vermin!
Presumably it makes it difficult, if not impossible, for you to access some areas of your fence for inspection and timely maintenance purposes?

@Geneticsbunny

Adverse possession hasn't been a thing people can claim for many years now

That's not quite true. It is still possible but more difficult.

In this case, obviously the OP would object to the application though.

The logs will contribute to the fence rotting as it can't dry out with all those logs stacked against it and then you will need to replace the fence. Definitely ask him to move them as soon as possible but I suggest trying to be diplomatic to start with as you really don't want to fall out with neighbours.

@Geneticsbunny

Adverse possession hasn't been a thing people can claim for many years now

Actually, you're wrong about that.

If the land is unregistered (and there is still a lot of unregistered land) then after 12 years you can make a claim for adverse possession.

If the land is registered then the process is a bit more complicated.

First of all, you need to wait for 10 years. You then make an application to the Land Registry and they will contact the registered owners and let them know that you are making an application for adverse possession.

The registered owner then has 65 working days (so, about 3 months) in which to object to your application.

If they don't object in time then, great, the land's yours.

If they do object then your application is rejected, but that's not quite the end of things.

The owner then has two years in which to start proceedings against you in court to get off their land.

So, if you either agree to vacate the land or they start court proceedings against you within two years then you're probably not going to get the land (although there are circumstances where you still could get the land).

However, if at the end of those two years the owner hasn't started court proceedings then you're free to make another application and this time it can't be refused.

Although, please note that if the land belongs to the Crown or government departments etc then the time is actually 30 years.

Yes but this bit is on the owners deeds and they live next door so they couldn't lose it to adverse possession because they would object. Either way, in this case it isn't really very relevent.

Just picking up on something you said.

Does he have other access to his garden?
Is the right of way on your deeds?
Is it on his?

Because if it isn't anywhere, and he has other access, then you could claim that it doesn't actually exist....