Aargh! Loft conversion and party wall notice

[shash1982]

Hi, I need advice and have read so much on the Internet that my brains starting to hurt and I've confused myself!

So, we've finally got the funds and plans in place to do a loft conversion for a dormer with one bedroom and bathroom.
Our house is terraced and we served the party wall notices yesterday.
One side has said yes they will sign and are happy to use a joint surveyor providing that the surveyor takes a look at the adjoining wall in both properties before and after the build.
Is something they would do automatically anyway? I thought that they would so agreed but am not reading conflicting information online.

The second is our other neighbour who doesn't like the owner of the building company we're using (he had a falling out with her friend years ago) and has said that she wants written confirmation from him that he would fix any damage to her property straight away. I've emailed him and am awaiting a response, but surely that would be down to the surveyor to deal with?
She has also said that she is reluctant to give her permission as it's him but anyone else then she would do.
We've already paid a deposit to him and after having a few quotes he seems to know the houses best and is the most popular in our area so not using his company isn't an option for us.

Please could someone advise as the building hasn't even started yet and I'm already feeling stressed about it all and worried that we're going to fall out with neighbours and that they'll add ££££ onto an already expensive build!

Why does your neighbour even know who your builder is? We served party wall notices before we’d appointed a builder so that’s definitely not a requirement.

It should all be done through the party wall surveyor(s) at this stage. The builder is only involved to the extent that they need to be aware of and agrees to abide by any requirements/stipulations in the agreement.

There’s usually a process for determining if remedial work is required (not just it gets fixed right away, any damage needs to be properly assessed).

JennyBond thank you. She knows as the company we're using issued us with the party wall notices to give to the neighbours.
On a section of it it states to post back to them.

She has also said that she is reluctant to give her permission as it's him but anyone else then she would do.

To get this out of the way first, if you go down the proper legal route and do everything by the book then your neighbour cannot stop you undertaking the work or deny reasonable access for you or your contractors to her property where needed to complete the work.

and has said that she wants written confirmation from him that he would fix any damage to her property straight away. I've emailed him and am awaiting a response, but surely that would be down to the surveyor to deal with?

Yes, you're right. The surveyor will draw up a "Party Wall Award".

The Award describes the works to be carried out that are covered by the Party Wall Act and it will set out the timing and manner of the proposed works and can include drawings and method statements.

Since you are obliged to make good any damage that the party wall works causes to your neighbours, a schedule of condition is usually also included. This is a record of the condition of the neighbouring property, which is done before any work starts. The schedule of condition then acts as a point of reference, if the party wall works cause damage.

The only thing that may cause more expense is that she may insist on having her own independent surveyor instead of using yours and you will also have to pay for that.

I'm sure that you've probably already read this gov.uk link about party wall awards, but for others it might be useful:-

www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works/if-you-cant-agree

Yes the party wall surveyor will (or should!!) visit and take photos of the party wall both sides, and the adjoining rooms in general, before work starts.

As a PP says, the unhappy neighbour cannot prevent you doing the work. The “worst” she can do is choose to have her own party wall surveyor rather than agreeing to a joint one. This will add a couple of £1000s to your bill as you will pay all party wall surveyor fees.

Also she can insist on the full statutory 2 months between party wall notice and work starting, rather than allowing work to start early.

nickymanchester thank you, I did read your link, I guess I just wanted confirmation that what I was thinking was correct.
I called the building company this morning and explained, they said that the project manager will arrange to come out 2 weeks before the work is due to start to take photos of the party wall on either side then they take photos again once it is completed.
They're going to also send through the procedures and copies of their liability insurance for me to pass along to our neighbour for her peace of mind.

Thanks minipie Luckily the building company was quick with letting us know to issue the party wall letters so even if she did try to hold things up (which I'm really hoping she doesn't), our work isn't due to start until the end of June.
It's the extra costs and neighbourly relations that's worrying me.
We don't want to fall out with her over this and we also have some contingency savings but don't want it to spiral!😬

I’m confused as to why your building company is dealing with this and not a party wall surveyor? The project manager should not be the one taking the before and after photos. That needs to be done by an independent party and is typically done by the surveyor.

I have to say that this all being done through your building company and not an independent party wall surveyor is both odd and alarming. They may recommend a surveyor but they need to be independent from the building company.

Also that doesn’t happen two weeks before work starts. Your neighbour can make it a condition of the party wall award that a schedule of condition is prepared. And that needs to be done before the award is issued.

JennyBond so do we hire a party wall surveyor? And how do we find a good one? We're just going on what we've been told by the building company.
Sorry for sounding naive, we've not done anything like this before.

In the paperwork we've received it has given a name of a surveyor that has been appointed separately to us.

We also have received emails from a building control company that come around at different stages to check the work and sign off on it.
They have requested a copy of the plans and architects drawings. Does this sound correct?

so do we hire a party wall surveyor? And how do we find a good one?

To start with here are two links that will give you names of local party wall surveyors:-

www.ricsfirms.com/residential/legal-issues/party-walls/

fpws.org.uk/

I would suggest that you have a look at both of those to find someone local and then do more searches to get recommendations on them.

In the paperwork we've received it has given a name of a surveyor that has been appointed separately to us.

That sounds a little bit dodgy. Is it the building firm that have done this?

It may be that they have a surveyor that they use regularly and they have instructed this person without getting your agreement first. It seems odd that they would have done this without at least first informing you - as you are responsible for paying their fees.

If this is the case then you can go with your building company's choice or ignore it and choose your own surveyor. You do not have to accept any surveyor just because your building company wants them.

On the other hand, if this is paperwork from your neighbour - which seems unlikely - then this may be them saying that they want to have their own surveyor in addition to yours. But I don't think, from what you have said, that they would have got to the point of requesting their own surveyor yet.

We also have received emails from a building control company that come around at different stages to check the work and sign off on it.
They have requested a copy of the plans and architects drawings. Does this sound correct?

Some councils do outsource building control matters to a separate company. I have no idea if your council does this or not.

I would suggest that you contact your local council, if you search "building regulations" and your local council and then contact the appropriate department and ask if this company is working on their behalf.

You should appoint your own surveyor. They draw up a party wall agreement. This is sent to your neighbour who can agree it or dispute it.

If they dispute, they find their own surveyor who then negotiates with your surveyor so there is an agreed party wall agreement. A builder shouldn’t do it. Local qualified surveyors usually can. It’s a document to safeguard both of you during the building process and will state how repairs, if needed, are to be handled.

I think it’s easier to handle this yourself. Lots of Building Control services are contracted out. Very normal.

Thanks everyone. Will get onto this in the morning.
So find local surveyor and speak to the local authority about building control.

The local authority (usually planning and building control) will tell you if building regs is contracted out. It might say on their web site.

Thank you PresentingPercy will find out tomorrow.
Just had one PWA back from one neighbour with the condition that we send them our plans.
They're happy to use the a joint surveyor with us though which is a bonus.
Just the other side now who wants written confirmation still that the building company will check her property for any damage and repair straight away.

I just want to get onto the fun bits of seeing it come together!

The details with the neighbour are part of the agreement. They are not separate. Before work photos should be taken so both parties are clear as to existing condition and can then evaluate any changes that need rectifying. You need to do this to stop a vexatious claim. It protects you snd the neighbour. Who, incidentally, shouldn’t have to wait for repairs. Set a time limit. Or the builder will walk away.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for your replies, you've been a massive help.
We now have a recommended surveyor who we will be calling today and have found out that a building control company act on behalf of our local authority.
We also have written confirmation from the building company that that will make good any damage they may cause to the adjoining properties and copies of their insurance certificates.
To the poster who asked why the project manager take photos of the party walls, apparently they take photos alongside the surveyor doing their report as they aim to make good damage as it happens rather than wait until the end of the build.