help - land registry boundary different from garden boundary!

Evecob · 2021-04-10T16:13:09+00:00

Hi all, We are in the middle of purchasing another property. Our solicitor has received the contract pack from our seller, and the land registry forms (title plan etc), and the boundary on the land registry is different to the garden fence boundary. I have linked the boundary on here as shown on the land registry, and drawn where the fence actually is (the crude red lines) as we saw it upon viewing and on google maps... It's an enquiry our solicitor has now asked the sellers solicitor but im a bit worried this might cause major delays in getting to exchange! Is something like this common and easy to resolve? Thanks

Bluntness100 · 10/04/2021 17:15

How big is the space between the red line and the dotted line? There is no scale on the pic

People often put the fence inside the boundary, can you explain your issue, is it, whatever size of land looks like it’s someone else’s property?

Bluntness100 · 10/04/2021 17:17

Oh and we did actually have boundary incorrect, very incorrect. As in we owned land the neighbours house was on. It took months.

So our solicitor, our mortgage company, their lawyer, the neighbour, their lawyer and their mortgage company and their lawyer all had to review and agree.

The land registry then redid it, and got it wrong again. So we had to do it again. Was fun, I think though if it’s simple it can be done in a few weeks.

Berthatydfil · 10/04/2021 17:17

Have they fenced in some land that should be left for other purposes such as a wildlife corridor or utilities access ?

Original poster

Evecob · 10/04/2021 18:00

@Bluntness100

How big is the space between the red line and the dotted line? There is no scale on the pic

People often put the fence inside the boundary, can you explain your issue, is it, whatever size of land looks like it’s someone else’s property?

I'd guess its a few metres, the length of the garden from the house to the actual fence is about 15/16 metres.. the land registry probably shows the boundary at maybe 12 metres or so... I don't understand why the boundary is there unless they were going to have the fence at that point but decided to extend it back at the last minute....

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Original poster

Evecob · 10/04/2021 18:01

I will add the house was built in 2018, so its pretty new.

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pilates · 10/04/2021 18:03

So any idea who the land belongs to? Your solicitor can do an index map search to try and find out. It could drag on a bit. Could you get it reinstated to where it should be.

Xiomara22 · 10/04/2021 18:05

Pre COVID times to get a boundary changed put us back a few months.

dementedpixie · 10/04/2021 18:09

Have the previous owners tried to extend their land using a fence? Were they attempting adverse possession?

titchy · 10/04/2021 18:13

Well easy enough to fix if it's a mistake. However if the wonder has simply taken a few metres of someone else's (developer?) land then you'll have to accept that the garden is smaller than it seems.

Original poster

Evecob · 10/04/2021 18:14

@Berthatydfil

Have they fenced in some land that should be left for other purposes such as a wildlife corridor or utilities access ?

nothing is fenced in, this is a google map of the garden. .

The shade is in the worst position but the yellow line is basically the fence now. the red line is roughly where land registry is saying the boundary is...

help - land registry boundary different from garden boundary!

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Somanysocks · 10/04/2021 18:21

I used to live in a road with an alley behind and several homeowners extended their gardens into the space, obviously unofficially, maybe this is the same?

Bluntness100 · 10/04/2021 18:23

Are you sure irs not a wildlife strip that has been left ? Many new builds have this as a requirement,

dementedpixie · 10/04/2021 18:25

It's happened in my street too. We have a back fence then trees and grass and then behind that is a metal fence as there's a railway line there too. Quite a few owners have extended their garden up to the metal fence to try and claim that extra land.

I wouldn't want to do it as there are large trees on the land behind our fence and I'd then be responsible for them whereas it's counted as common ground just now and dealt with by a factor instead (scotland)

Millyonthehill · 10/04/2021 18:27

The owners could have purchased the extra land separately. There is a house round the corner from me who did that. I found the small area of land while looking for ownership of a private footpath. You can do a map search at landregistry.gov.uk . See if there is a piece of land called "land to the rear of no ..... " , or similar, download the plan to see if you have the right bit, then the title file to find the owner. It's £3 per download but saves a lot of faffing about with solicitors!

Original poster

Evecob · 10/04/2021 19:30

@Millyonthehill

The owners could have purchased the extra land separately. There is a house round the corner from me who did that. I found the small area of land while looking for ownership of a private footpath. You can do a map search at landregistry.gov.uk . See if there is a piece of land called "land to the rear of no ..... " , or similar, download the plan to see if you have the right bit, then the title file to find the owner. It's £3 per download but saves a lot of faffing about with solicitors!

There were 2 registry map plans we were given from solicitor and one showed the gardens aligning, which would make sense if the fence is where it is right now! Theres a paddock behind, but it doesnt look like the garden has taken up space from that, it looks like the fence is where it should be?!

i attached a new google map picture to show the other gardens and the paddock behind

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CityDweller · 10/04/2021 23:56

We had a similar issue buying our house 2 years ago. Discrepancy between land registry and physical boundary. It got sorted in the end, but only thanks to our vendor who was very motivated and took charge of setting the land registry straight. It did take a while, but didn’t actually hold things up because there were delays our end anyway. In the end we exchanged before the boundary issue was actually officially sorted out, but only because we were confident it was actually a bit of a non-issue and the neighbours on the relevant side, our vendor and us were all on the same page and it was simply, at that point, waiting for the land registry to update things. If there had actually been any dispute or uncertainly we wouldn’t have exchanged.

Netaporter · 11/04/2021 00:05

Op, from bitter experience I know the red line on title plans is only valid for +/- 0.50m. It’s greater for rural areas. Is it a show stopper if the extra land is not included? You need to get your solicitor to sort this before exchange. Boundary disputes are very expensive so best get it sorted before you proceed.

Babyiwantabump · 11/04/2021 00:09

From the last picture it looks like the fence is in the right place and that other area is the paddock behind ?

Doje · 11/04/2021 00:12

Tell your solicitor, and get them to sort it out.

We had an issue with this. The land registry had chopped off a bit of our drive, meaning we wouldn't have owned the bottom of it! The solicitor dealt with it quickly and got it changed.

tryingtocatchthewind · 11/04/2021 07:32

If it was only built in 2018 then have a look at the planning application documents, they should mark the plots out

Original poster

Evecob · 11/04/2021 09:07

Thanks all. Its good to know this is an issue that can either be solved quickly or that it is possible to exchange if we are all on the same page.
Our solicitor has queried this. But this was 1 of about 28 enquiries!! Hopefully it wont take too long. We just had word that iur vendors solicitor will be looking into our enquiries this coming week, so fingers crossed it will be a non issue

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nickymanchester · 11/04/2021 11:30

Since it was only built in 2018 I would guess that it was the developer that actually put up the fence there and not the subsequent owners who have moved the fence.

Developers do occasionally get things wrong on the ground and put fences in the wrong place.

As milly said you can find out who this bit of land belongs to by searching on the gov.uk site and it costs £3.

It probably won't be given an address so you will need to ask for a search of the "Index Map"

Details of how to do it here:-

www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land

If it turns out that your seller owns it then great. If it turns out that they don't own it then there is a means of gaining ownership by what is called adverse possession.

The law to do with this is the Land Registration Act 2002 and, in this particular case, the relevant part is Schedule 6 paragraph 5(4).

What this says is that after ten years you can apply to register the property as your own because:-

"...the applicant (or any predecessor in title) reasonably believed that the land to which the application relates belonged to him"

If the developer of a new housing estate put the fences in that location then you can reasonably believe that they are in the correct position - even if they aren't.

What I would suggest might happen is that, if the land does not belong to your seller then your solicitor will ask them for an indemnity insurance policy which will pay out if the developer ever comes back and reclaims that bit of land.

Tulipvase · 11/04/2021 11:48

We had an issue in that we had use of a bit of the neighbours garden. It was historical and apparently as it was over a set period of time we could have legally acquired the land. We weren’t bothered about the land though and so as not to delay the purchase, we agreed to give back the piece of land. The neighbour was pleased as it made a big difference to him and previous owners had offered to do but hadn’t bothered.

Original poster

Evecob · 11/04/2021 13:17

@nickymanchester

Since it was only built in 2018 I would guess that it was the developer that actually put up the fence there and not the subsequent owners who have moved the fence.

Developers do occasionally get things wrong on the ground and put fences in the wrong place.

As milly said you can find out who this bit of land belongs to by searching on the gov.uk site and it costs £3.

It probably won't be given an address so you will need to ask for a search of the "Index Map"

Details of how to do it here:-

www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land

If it turns out that your seller owns it then great. If it turns out that they don't own it then there is a means of gaining ownership by what is called adverse possession.

The law to do with this is the Land Registration Act 2002 and, in this particular case, the relevant part is Schedule 6 paragraph 5(4).

What this says is that after ten years you can apply to register the property as your own because:-

"...the applicant (or any predecessor in title) reasonably believed that the land to which the application relates belonged to him"

If the developer of a new housing estate put the fences in that location then you can reasonably believe that they are in the correct position - even if they aren't.

What I would suggest might happen is that, if the land does not belong to your seller then your solicitor will ask them for an indemnity insurance policy which will pay out if the developer ever comes back and reclaims that bit of land.

Thank you very much for your detailed response! We will check out the link you gave.

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Tereseta · 11/04/2021 13:20

You can order the original transfer of part deed which will have the plan the developers submitted. If it is land registry error it should be sorted pretty fast if not it might take a bit more investigating.