Deal breakers: No bathtub? No downstairs loo?

[MaryMashedThem]

We're in a mid-terrace, 3 storeys including the loft conversion. We currently have a loo with a bathtub on the ground floor, and a loo with a shower in the loft. We want to open up the downstairs to make it more open plan, but to make the best use of space, we either have to move the whole downstairs loo and bathtub to the first floor, or lose the bathtub and just have a toilet and sink downstairs.
We're planning to sell the house a year or so after this.
If you were buying which would you prefer?
No toilet downstairs but a full bathroom on the first floor, or
No bathtub, but a toilet on the ground floor

I think all open plan is unpopular, I think open plan with a separate lounge / utility is the optimum solution. Can you do that? I think a 4 bed house is likely to appeal to a family with 2 or 3 children so you need at least 2 separate living spaces if space allows.

Back to the bath question. We have the world's smallest downstairs loo - roughly 1.5m by 0.7m. it's under the stairs. Tiny but perfectly functional. Could you squeeze something like that in with the main bathroom on the first floor?

I really wouldn't worry about selling the house as a do er upper, after all, you bought it. Problem is that you may end up losing part of your market by changing things unnecessarily!

I'd want a proper bath. And I wouldn't want a bathroom on the ground floor. Downstairs loo is an good thing.

I'ld prefer a full bathroom with bath on first floor. Our EA advised us not to sell part renovated to do all or nothing but you could ask their advice.

When we were selling I discovered some building reg saying you can't remove a downstairs toilet and not replace it after we had already done that. I just declared it and our buyers bought anyway but our solicitor said she expected their solicitor may well ask for an indemnity policy. Think this is it:

www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/34/kitchens_and_bathrooms/4

I quite liked open plan when mine were little as you always knew what they were up to but we did have doors with glass in them to the kitchen which you could shut if wanted and was a fairly large downstairs. Also had an office upstairs so could work in quiet.

I'ld have a look on Rightmove at what has sold locally and that should give you some idea of what sells at what price. Home.co.uk has stats as well.

I'd rather have the bath and no downstairs loo, as long as there are still two toilets. I'm also very used to open plan downstairs layouts (it's the norm here - I'm not in the UK) and I actually like it except for not being able to have anyone sleep in the living room when we host more than just a couple of guests, because there's no way to shut out our annoying cats, but it's so rare that that's even an issue.

Honestly, if you are planning on selling in a year I wouldn’t do it. Any house will sell in any state if it’s priced realistically, and if there are options buyers can choose what works for them and do it themselves.

But when I was looking, my one total no-no was bathroom on ground floor. I don’t want to be traversing stairs for a wee during the night, or changing floors for my morning shower. Open-plan or not is a very personal choice I think, at this point you are more likely to limit appeal by spending the money to do it, than by leaving it as it is and letting whoever buys it decide.

Bathroom on first floor with bedrooms and downstairs loo (under stairs is good, it doesn't need to be an outside wall at all, and that also doesn't mean it needs to be a macerator either).
As for open plan, I like kitchen/diners and separate living room. Kitchen/diner/family room with separate living room is ideal, but not always enough space for that.

@Silkiescat That's very interesting and useful! That link mentions dwellings built after 1999 but doesn't specify whether the regs apply more widely than that. Ours was built in the 30s. I'll send the link to the architect and see what he says. Thanks!

Interesting thoughts re a toilet under the stairs - we could just about fit one in there, but we'd then lose the storage space. Maybe that's a worthwhile trade-off 🤔
In an ideal world, we'd extend into the back garden, but I think that will go over our current budget.

@Africa2go - would it matter to you if one of the living spaces was on the first floor? Our current setup is that one of the first floor bedrooms is set up as a living room, and it works very well aesthetically, but we find we just dont use it as I'm so often in the kitchen 🙄 and all the toddler's toys are in the dining room. Occasionally DH and I watch a film in there after DS is in bed but that's about it.

I would not buy a property without a bath or fairly easy installation of a bath. Although a downstairs loo can be a benefit (partic with v young or older occupants obvs) I am beginning to feel the same way about them as I do ensuites - so often shoehorned in and creating awkwardness Ed close to living eating spaces. - just why?
A lovely tucked away downstairs loo great. A toilet shoved under the stairs is becoming bizarre to my own thinking (no special needs here (yet).

Definitely put a bathroom on the first floor and keep a downstairs loo if possible

Personally I'd not buy it at all whatever you chose to do. I'd say minimum two toilets and a full bathroom

I wouldn’t buy if there was no toilet on the ground floor, and I wouldn’t buy if there was no bath. Sorry!

Definitely worth putting a loo under the stairs if you can fit one.

Having a first floor sitting room is very common round here, we use ours as an adult space to watch tv etc.

You're mistake is in thinking you have turned a 2 bed into a 4 bed. You haven't. You have added a loft conversion to a 2 bed. You must already have reduced the original upstairs to put in the stairs to the loft. Moving the bathroom upstairs would reduce it further. Additionally no matter how open plan you make things the downstairs living space is commensurate with 2 beds not 4. You would need to actually do the downstairs build out to change this in which case better to leave it as potential for future buyer rather than do half the job yourself which just means buyers feel they are paying for work they will need to redo.

In answer to the question I would keep the bathroom where it is.

A downstairs toilet is a massive bonus once you reach middle age and upwards or for anyone with mobility problems. Also attractive if you are someone who doesn't want visitors poking around. Not having a bathroom on the middle floor is only really an issue for people with toilet training DC.

[quote MaryMashedThem]@Africa2go - would it matter to you if one of the living spaces was on the first floor? Our current setup is that one of the first floor bedrooms is set up as a living room, and it works very well aesthetically, but we find we just dont use it as I'm so often in the kitchen 🙄 and all the toddler's toys are in the dining room. Occasionally DH and I watch a film in there after DS is in bed but that's about it.[/quote]
I think I'd find the same, that it wouldn't get used. That layout (3 storey with a lounge on the first floor) is the same as most of the modern newbuild townhouses round here where developers are trying to squeeze as many houses on to the site. They're sold as 3 bedroomed houses though, not as 4 beds. It obviously appeals to some people though or developers wouldn't build them.

I agree with @Sempre though that if you're doing this to make money, you need to be careful whether you'll get the return - without adding square footage on the ground floor you're unlikely to get the price that a true 4 bed would get i.e. where there are 4 bedrooms on the 1st floor and the same sized footprint on the ground floor.

I would leave it and let the next people decide, no point doing all that work and then selling up soon after, its a massive hassle and cost (seasoned house renovator here).

It depends on where the loo is located, but in a typical Victorian tce I'd move the whole thing upstairs as the loo tends to end up too close to the kitchen and I hate that.
If it's near the entryway/hall then I'd keep a downstairs loo.
FWIW when we move next I will be preferring a downstairs loo. In-laws aren't great on stairs so don't want that to be a sticking point then them coming to visit.

I know what you are saying about leaving it unbalanced. But if its obvious the exension can be done, or planning is in place - that should help sell.

I just think extensions can uncover all sorts of stuff that can delay them . Ours got delayed with Covid and its only blind luck we didn't end up with half the house uncovered over the winter.

And open plan is quite marmite especially now.

I like the idea of open plan but the reality is horrible. I much prefer an open kitchen diner with seating area and a separate living room.

Keeping an eye on the kids whilst you are in the kitchen is fine if you can block access off to the kitchen. We had a living-diner and separate kitchen leading off with a door that we put a baby gate up. That meant when I was cooking when the kid were toddlers we could keep them away from the cooker. Also we could keep the dog in the kitchen away from the kids when needed.

With working from home a separate downstairs space is a must I think.

The three storey layout I find isn't good for young families, it does work if you have teens who you can give their own separate floor to. We discounted all houses where a child's bedroom or the living room was on a separate floor.

We have a downstairs bathroom. It is great when you get to the stage where you can leave the DC in the bath and keep an ear out while you get on and clear up the kitchen after dinner. Also good for making sure they wash their hands before dinner and brush teeth before school.

@SempreSuiGeneris I suspect you're right WRT not having enough living space for a true 4 bed. We genuinely can't leave it as is though - the (stick-on laminate tile stuck straight onto concrete 😬) flooring is all peeling off, the bathroom is a dark weird L-shape directly off the kitchen, the current living/dining room is about 3x3m because the (reasonably good sized) kitchen and bathroom take up so much space, the kitchen tiles have an orange tie-dye pattern, kitchen units are from the 60s... while the upstairs is all wood floors, exposed brick, full-height windows. The money we've already spent doing up the upstairs will be lost if viewers see the downstairs and (quite justifiably) think "what a dump".

Maybe the solution is to spend our budget extending the downstairs a little, and just put in the bare minimum of finishes/fittings. I wish we'd never bought the bloody place!