Buying a house no certs

[Subbaxeo]

We’re currently in the process of buying a house with side and rear extensions. On the information form, the seller said no building work done, no electrical work done, no windows done etc. We queried it and a completion certificate has turned up for the earlier extension, but it looks like another was done in 2016 and there is no certificate for that. Also a kitchen has been recently installed and nothing for that either-no electrical certificate, same for a bathroom. They also said no electrical work or testing has ever been carried out. We’re waiting for searches to come back but they’re taking 5-6 weeks in Wales. Has anyone ever bought without certificates? We love the house but starting to get a bit nervous. It’s in the middle of a nice village and properties don’t come up that often.We haven’t applied for a mortgage yet because we want the compliance certificates before we incur additional costs. But surely, they would have supplied them if they had them?

I would walk away tbh.

They've already lied to you about not having work done, what else are they hiding?

They say that they didn’t get the work done-which wasn’t what the form asked. I suppose if I were being generous, they could have misunderstood the question. They bought the house 3 years ago, but have had a big kitchen installed which I’m assuming would have had some electrical work. The estate agent is using a sales progressor so I have queried building regs with them and they have supplied some. But yes, it does seem dodgy. But we love the village and houses don’t come up in the centre very often.

Yep. We bought ours with no certs, our conveyancer simply got an indemnity from the seller.

Which was cheap btw. Less than £100.

I’m not even sure what the indemnity is for, thinking about it! It was our conveyancer’s advice (and they were excellent, so we just trusted their advice). What difference would having the certificates make? The house is nice, you like it, it’s all been lived in and is working for the existing occupiers. It’s not an untested new build, which is something I WOULD stress about. Are you worried about being able to go back to the kitchen installers if something breaks or stops working? How old is the kitchen?

It's really dodgy for recently done work to not have the relevant certs - it suggests that the work wasn't up to scratch. Even if the work is fine, it's going to make it difficult to sell on. Indemnity insurance is fairly useless - all it covers is your legal costs if the council come after you, it doesn't actually cover the cost of putting any problems right. You may end up having to pay to take the extension down.

It’s the fact it was done so recently that makes me worried. It’s a basic thing to get sign off-I got it when I had my kitchen installed for the electrical work and provided it when I sold my house. According to the agent, kitchen was remodelled last year. And indemnity insurance doesn’t cover against anything failing, just enforcement from the council.

I don't think you need building regs for replacing the bathroom or for replacing the kitchen either. I'm going to have new units put in next year, but as I won't be changing anything in the way of sockets, there is no need as far as I can see, to get an electrical check done.

Don't think you would need certificates for bathrooms and kitchens. Suppose it depends who carried out the work - we often get work done by people we know and there is no paperwork - it has never occurred to me that there should be any

It doesn’t have to mean the work was done badly - plenty of people have no idea that building regs are a thing, and how far reaching they are. Many tradesmen, even really good ones, won’t take it upon themselves to remind the house owner about the legal side, so it could just be an oversight re kitchen. Extensions and major building work is a different matter - but if you’re worried about the work, you can ask that the owners get a certificate of regularisation. This is often intrusive, though, so they may not be willing. Or you knock money off your offer to cover the cost of redoing the work.

I had a kitchen installed by a joiner friend we've known years, he did a great job but no certs - I didn't know this was a thing. If the house isn't being sold as a recent refurb I wouldn't really expect lots of documents, it's a "used" property.

You can ask the seller to get an electrician to sign off on the safety of the wiring, I think. That might give you some reassurance?

Previous posters are right. This is not an issue. If you like the house, ask for, or pay for, a current electrical certificate. This will show the current state of the electrics and flag any issues or not. Far better than a cert that is several years old.

And ask your solicitor to obtain indemnity insurance for missing items.

This is fairly routine and your solicitor will be able to advise well.

PP above who said that it is tried and tested and therefore less risky than new build makes a good point.

Is everyone who says it's fine missed the point that there are no regs for an extension done in 2016?

Would there be any evidence elsewhere - who signs off building regs? Would the council have records?

Our vendor couldn’t find the building regs cert for extensions done in 2018. Our solicitor was able to find it online with the council. Didn’t take very long.

We then also had to take out an indemnity policy or the vendor did as the original deeds when the house was sold by the council was that no alterations could be made to the outside without permission. Now aparantly this is seperate permission to the planning permission that was granted. Our policy covers us for any league action, the cost of pulling down the extension (but as there is planning permission this is very unlikely) as well as if that happened the cost of the devaluation of the house so we won’t lose out on what we have paid for it eg buying it as a 4 bed but then having to knock down the extension and sell it on as a 3 bed.

Oh ok, this is very helpful, thank you. Yes, the issue is the extension done in 2016-nothing exists for that and when first asked, the seller said it was historic-2016 isn’t what I’d call historic. And it is being sold as an updated and greatly improved house-the kitchen is very different to the one previous. Not just a case of ripping out cupboards and fitting new ones. When my kitchen was gutted and new electrical installations done, the electrician gave me a certificate to say they had checked all the new connections. Same with adding spotlights to my bathroom. So it does concern me when people get things done but don’t bother checking if it’s legal.

If they only bought the house in the last few years their old solicitors for the purchase will still have the file in their archives. It might have certificates for any of the work done before they bought it or at the very list indemnity policies. Strange that they don't have certificates for their own work but inexperienced home owners might be silly enough to throw things like that away.

But if the certificates exist at all then they'll be mentioned in the searches. That was certainly the case regarding the certificates that our vendor needed for the electrics when she remodled the kitchen.

If they only moved in 3 years ago, the extension wasn't done by them? So your solicitor will be able to chase the certs for that. If there isn't any, the buyers may have bought without and took out their own indemnity on it. They are probably trying to hide this until your deeper into the sale. I would ask them outright.

But I also have had a new kitchen and bathroom since moving in 3 years ago. Done by a qualified plumber and sparky (who are mates) and I haven't got anything signed off. If I sold (which I won't be) the buyers if worried can get their own survey done. You are being too precious imo over stuff like that. The extension not so much and I completely agree you need to tread carefully. But I still wouldn't necessarily walk away yet.

The question on the form is have YOU done any building work- putting in a kitchen and redoing a bathroom is not building work.
They should have had building certs given to them when they bought the house. It should turn up in the searches?
As for new kitchen - I put one in I'm trying to think if I needed electrical certs - there were a few additional plugs put in and lights but I don't think you need it for that. I do have it for the pool and outdoor lights as that needed a new fuse thing.
I'm sure its pretty straightforward for an electrical test though, and would cost about £100.
Indemnity is for enforcement, which they can't do anyway after a year, but for some reason conveyancers accept it.
Solicitors ask for odd things. I had wood burning stoves installed and provided the Hetas cert for them - the lawyers then asked for a 'competent person' cert too, but you have to be Hetas registered to give out the certificate (ie, a 'competent person'). Box ticking without thinking!

The question on the form is has any building work or notifiable work been done to the house-not have YOU done anything. Has any electrical work been done since 2005, windows etc. They ticked no to everything-only when challenged did they remember they put some windows in. There are questions when it specifically asks about what they’ve done. I’m surprised it’s regarded as precious to want to check things have been done legally, especially as it could cause a problem if we come to sell. When my DP sold his house-he had internal wall removed with no regs and his buyer wanted it regularised-not just an indemnity. Getting that was a nightmare and don’t want to go through that with an extension. I just wondered if it’s a common thing.

You have misread what I said. I personally think asking for certs for a few electrical sockets etc in a kitchen installation as precious. I didn't say building work-i did say I'd be expecting one for the extension. But-they didn't do the building work. I'd expect your solicitor to do the chasing for things that happened before those vendors.

Now my DM is a stickler for things like this and flowing the rules. Even she wouldn't be worrying about a kitchen installation. I would be advising a friend in this situation to concentrate on the important things-the building work. But like I said, at this point it wouldn't put me off. It would just be on my radar to be cautious about possible things I would need to chase.
I also think they (the vendors) are probably thinking that they aren't going to be jumping through hoops if you haven't started the ball rolling with your mortgage. I'm surprised the estate agent even let you put an offer in without that. Just another point of view OP.

I agree with you and if it were the case of a few sockets we would be fine-windows have been installed with no FENSA and we’re fine. Re the mortgage-we have got it approved and we had to show all our finances before we could view-I think that’s normal in Wales. But do we want to pay out more money for the mortgage valuation if there’s an illegal extension? No we don’t. And why didn’t the vendor just tell us how it was when they bought it? That’s what I would have done.

And Ceredigion is taking 6 weeks to get search results back.