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Original poster

Mains wired smoke alarm system?

24 replies

Bobbots · 30/03/2021 10:33

Niche question but I'm hoping someone might be able to help. We are having some renovation work done which includes knocking through a couple of walls, fitting a new boiler and kitchen, and a lot of new lighting. The electrician says we need a new consumer unit too. There was originally no mention of a smoke alarm system but the builders have now said that we 'might need one for building regs'. When i've pushed them on the 'might', no-one is willing to actually say that it is DEFINITELY needed, and they are being quite wishy washy. When pushed further they then started saying that it's recommended by British Standards, but that's not the same as it being a requirement for building control sign off.

I looked up the building regs online and found this: www.fireangel.co.uk/fire-building-regulations/
I do not think that our renovation work comes under 'materially altered dwellings' and we also don't need a heat detector in the kitchen from what I can tell, as there is a doorway between the kitchen and the 'circulation spaces'.

Can anyone shed further light please?

(There is a backstory to this, and the builders keep trying to add additional things to our project that we have not asked for, hence why I'm so sceptical. Also I know that ideally we would have a mains wired system for safety but we currently have 4 battery powered smoke alarms and 2 battery carbon monoxide detectors which we test weekly and seem to do the job just fine, and we cannot really afford the extra £800 that we are being asked for this, on top of everything else that they are trying to add).

OP posts:

Muststopeating · 30/03/2021 11:03

I'm sorry I can't help much, but I'd guess that if the work was significant enough to be considered a materially altered dwelling that you'd need a building warrant? I'm in Scotland and up here if you are replacing a kitchen then extractors/alarms etc have to be as good as or better than what was there. However, as soon as you move the kitchen to a different room then you are subject to the full wrath of meeting buulding regs.

If it helps in anyway, Scotland are introducing new regs that now mean you have to have a minimum amount of smoke/heat detectors which must be interlinked (although I don't believe necessarily mains wired). These have to be installed by a deadline regardelss of whether or not you are doing work. So doing it now when the house is chaos anyway would future proof in case of new regs. Though i fully sympathise with the not being able to find the extra money when it is already coming out your ears.

Here's my slightly controversial advice... if you don't need a buulding warrant and noone is coming at the end of the project to sign off the work/issue a completions certificate then it is ultimately up to you.

If you do have/need a building warrant then I would be in touch with the inspector (should be listed on your approval) and ask them directly.

SacreBleeurgh · 30/03/2021 11:05

As I understand it, FWIW, the new regs in Scotland do require the alarms to be hardwired as well as interlinked, having had to put a system in both the house we’ve just sold for building regs and the one we’ve bought and rewired...

mummabubs · 30/03/2021 11:13

Possibly wrong... but I was literally watching Homes Under the Hammer. 20 minutes ago and they said mains smoke alarms are now required for building regs!

Muststopeating · 30/03/2021 11:37

I just took this from the gov website:
www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/

The new standard requires:

one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used for general daytime living purposes
one smoke alarm in every circulation space on each storey, such as hallways and landings
one heat alarm installed in every kitchen
All alarms should be ceiling mounted and interlinked.

Where there is a carbon-fuelled appliance (such as boilers, fires (including open fires) and heaters) or a flue, a carbon monoxide detector is also required which does not need to be linked to the fire alarms.

There are two types of alarms that comply with the new standard:

Tamper proof long-life lithium battery alarms, which can be fitted by householders themselves or;
Mains-wired alarms, which are cheaper than tamper proof long-life battery alarms, but should be installed by a qualified electrician in accordance with BS7671.

Muststopeating · 30/03/2021 11:38

That being said, the extension I am building does require mains wired. So i think they realise that many people couldn't afford to install mains wired, however, if you are doing work anyway it is at that point they insist on mains wired.

Original poster

Bobbots · 30/03/2021 11:49

Thanks everyone, I'm not in Scotland though I'm in England so don't know if that changes things?

We are not doing an extension at all. It is just some new wiring for moving oven/lights etc and moving walls and doorways. From what I can tell this isn't what they deem to be 'material alterations'?

OP posts:

TobyHouseMan · 30/03/2021 12:00

I'd say if you have the chance of installing them during renovation then do it.

Mains smokes are very convenient, never have to change batteries. They are also linked so if one goes off, they all do.

I had 5 fitted during our works, including one in the loft. I sleep better at night knowing if there is a fire the whole house will alarm.

Hollyhead · 30/03/2021 12:13

Sounds very expensive we had one put in for £100!

BuildingSurveyDrama · 30/03/2021 12:57

We did a loft extension and were told we either needed new fire doors throughout or a fully integrated mains wired smoke alarm throughout. We chose the latter (because fire doors are bloody ugly and smoke alarms are brilliant).

youngestisapsycho · 30/03/2021 13:23

We renovated whole house and built an extension. DH wired mains ones as he said they were required for building regs. We have one in kitchen and by front door/bottom of stairs and one upstairs.
The kitchen one is a heat sensor, not smoke.

Honeyroar · 30/03/2021 13:27

@Bobbots

Thanks everyone, I'm not in Scotland though I'm in England so don't know if that changes things?

We are not doing an extension at all. It is just some new wiring for moving oven/lights etc and moving walls and doorways. From what I can tell this isn't what they deem to be 'material alterations'?

If you’re moving walls and doorways then it’s definitely major changes. We did similar and had to have mains smoke alarms for building regs too. One upstairs, one downstairs.

LBOCS2 · 30/03/2021 13:41

Moving walls and doors constitutes material changes to the structure of the property.

Interlinked and mains wired smoke detectors are not that expensive, particularly when you get them done as other major works, and they could literally save your family's life. For me personally it would be a no-brainer (and for context we do have a mains interlinked system which was installed as part of a rewire last year).

LeroyJenkinssss · 30/03/2021 13:51

Sorry for the random aside, but we are having buildings work done via insurance. No new walls/doorways but likely the downstairs needs re-wiring and re-plastering (England). Do I need to make sure that this is done at the same time?

LBOCS2 · 30/03/2021 13:55

I would presume so, as any new installation needs to be to current standards which does include this requirement. I don't know 100% for partial replacements though.

Original poster

Bobbots · 30/03/2021 17:13

Thanks everyone. @LBOCS2 I know that moving the walls and doors does constitute changes, but when I looked at the document it seemed like it was quite specific about the scope of the changes. I'm not 100% sure though.

In the grand scheme of things, £800 for a safety system is not much and I'm in two minds about whether to just have it done. The problem is though that there are so many little extras here or there that seem to be getting added and if we take them all then we can't afford the work, so I need to cut something somewhere...

OP posts:

porridgecake · 30/03/2021 17:22

My son put them in in his house when it was being rewired. I don't think it added much to the cost at all. If I had the choice I would have a wired in system.

LBOCS2 · 30/03/2021 17:26

To be fair, £800 does seem quite pricey for that job given that they're already doing a lot of work. Have you asked them to spec it?

Midlifelady · 30/03/2021 17:50

Last renovations on two properties (one was just new flooring and kitchen, nothing structural) and had to get smoke alarms hard wired. It makes sense - why wouldn't you? It's not an expensive job, and saves you from that awful beeping when the battery is dying.

LeroyJenkinssss · 30/03/2021 20:52

Thanks - I’ll speak to the insurance company

Honeyroar · 30/03/2021 20:54

@Midlifelady

Ours still does that. They have back up batteries and beep when they’re flat just like normal ones. It took 10 years, but ours went flat this year.

AnneElliott · 30/03/2021 21:37

Have you applied for building regs for the works that you're currently doing? As if so, the inspector will have listed all the conditions when they issued the approval. Or if it's a building notice then building control will co form when they come out of it is required.

Clymene · 30/03/2021 21:47

I would absolutely get them if you're already doing a load of renovation. £800 seems super toppy tho

Itscoldouthere · 31/03/2021 18:21

Mains wired still have a back up battery ours started to need replacing after about 4 years.
I’d get it done if you can afford it.

muddledmidget · 31/03/2021 18:35

We've recently had a new consumer unit and new electrical circuits put in our kitchen and our electrician strongly recommended that we had a new hard wired heat detector with carbon monoxide detection put in the kitchen. I think we paid £270 to put in that one and change one of our other hard wired smoke alarms to a radio transmitter alarm so they could all link in together (we had a loft conversion done 5 years ago where they put in 2 hard wired ones but none in the kitchen). Best bit is the button downstairs that silences all the alarms when I set one off!

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