Replace ing oil boiler with what ?

[121hugsneeded]

Asking for a friend who lives in remote location.

They currently have an old ( 30years plus) oil boiler as no mains gas.

Options we have chatted through on the phone yesterday were :

1. Replace with new oil boiler

1. Replace with LPG boiler and bew lpg tank

1. Replace with electric boiler

1. Replace with some new method that neither of us knew anything about - pellets - or heat from air ? Or from ground ? But that's where the knowledges is lacking!

Can anyone help us work out a good solution please. TIA

As an aside for anyone with an old house, I have both upstairs and downstairs retro fitted overfloor underfloor heating. These are on low profile spreader plates which lay overfloor boards, then a hardboard cover then flooring of your choice (tiles downstairs, carpet upstairs). As it is an old house with high ceilings I could afford to lose the minimal difference fitting it made to the overall height of the room. The UFH made a huge difference to the overall warmth of the house and is considerably cheaper to run to achieve the same effect with rads. You can also position furniture everywhere. It was fitted as part of a whole renovation so it’s not a weekend job (you’d need to remove all skirtings and doors) but for anyone renovating, I’d definitely recommend. Then connect to the boiler/energy source of your choice.

Fantastic - thank you everyone for your input.
Retro fitting UFH would be out I think as the home is an old cottage with mostly very low 2m ceilings. ( one room is double height ) It had a new bundle tank ? (Bundled ? Sounded like that sorry - not sure ) a few years ago. This sits at the rear of their drive and has pipework to one end of the place.
There is an extra charge to keep an eye on the levels of oil and they get approx 1000 litres 4-5 times over the course of a year currently. ( which I thought was quite a lot m, but I might be wrong ?) the oil company phone up and say it's running low can the come and full it - hope they aren't taking advantage ??

I wonder if the old boiler isn't very efficient. Back when we could visit it was obviously either very cold in there or sweltering. No happy medium. Has 12 radiators and could do with one more in a converted garage area. (Not sure if this is relevant.) I would say it's mostly cob walls with internal wood panelling and I do know they had loads of kingspan put into the whole roof area as part of an upgrade about 10 years ago , as I helped unload that delivery.

[quote PigletJohn]@womaninatightspot

"Electric is more expensive but you get 3x heat to electric plus RHI payment so it's fine."

What does that mean?[/quote]
I'd always be happy to be corrected by you :)

My understanding is that for every Kw of electricity you put in you get up 3 Kw of heat out the system because it's generating heat using the thermal energy from the air.

For RHI to a limit of 20,000 KW a year, I'm allowed to claim 10.7p per KW of heat generated so a max of 2140 quid which should offset increased electric/ help pay some for the system.

Aware RHI lasts only for 7 years but I plan to get a wind turbine to then start subsidising electric usage if everything goes to plan.

Yes, the oil company are taking advantage. Never use this kind of scheme, monitor levels and prices.

That is a colossal amount of oil - I use 1500 litres a year ( 8 year old boiler) , this is partly an old property although we do warm it when wanted. With that much they must have heating on 24/7 and it sounds really lacking in insulation.

That’s an awful lot of oil to use. It definitely needs to be checked. We were using approx 1500 - 2000 litres per year which seemed mad. We got a new thermostat last year and since last March have used 1000 litres. That’s working from home and heating on a lot. We also got a second tank when prices dropped last year so have a full 1200 litres left for this year.

Another saying that's a LOT of oil. I have 17 radiators in a 4 bed 3 reception house and we were using about 2000l of oil a year.
I would forget the top up system, she is tied to one company. Join the oil club and get their weekly email prices. I used to get the price on Friday night and compare on line or ring a local company on Sat am to negotiate.
Is there a smell of oil anywhere. I wonder if there is a leak in the tank or pipework between the boiler nd the tank . Unless the house is very poorly insulated, in which case spend money on that first.

@121hugsneeded it is a ‘bunded’ tank

That is a huge amount of oil for a house of that size and the company is taking advantage. My house is bigger than lindt’s and we use c3000 per non-Covid year.

That's a lot of oil, about how much our previous owners used. The efficiency and insulation measures we put in have reduced the 5000l oil consumption (!!) to 1800l. We have more radiators, a bigger hot water tank and more people.

@Netaporter can these be used with a suspended floor?

@tilder - yes the UFH I used was suitable for a period property over floorboards with a void. There is a reflective sheet under the spreader plates so there is minimal heat loss downwards. I used Wundafloor. This was 7/8 years ago now when the concept was very new. You might find something even whizzier now. At the time it was no dearer to buy and install the system than replacing rads with period style ones. We have hard wired thermos in every room as the wireless ones would have been temperamental in a house with thick walls and poor wifi..

In the same dilemma and have been tempted to replace LPG with oil. Have been advised that oil, while cheaper to buy, can be problematic. If any moisture gets into the tank during deliver, then it causes boiler issues that won't be covered by the warranty.

It's a common problem apparently.

@121hugsneeded you can get tank monitors that are wireless. They plug in in your house and constantly tell you the level in your tank. We usually re-order when we get down to 200 litres, and we always shop around for the best price. I too would be concerned you either have a leak or there is something very strange going on. We have quite a large house and use about 1000 to 1500 litres per annum, and we certainly don't stint ourselves over heat. You need to do some serious checking of your tank, your boiler and your supplier.

@blackAlys That is not a common problem at all! We have had oil heating for donkeys years and that has never happened, and I have never heard of it happening to anyone else. You can get a thing called diesel bug, but I only know of it happening on boats, which can get condensation in the diesel tank (and diesel) if they are left unused all winter and the tank is half full or less. This wouldn't happen with a domestic tank. The biggest mistake people make is allowing the tank to run out, then your burners will be full of shitty gunk and need a professional service.

@Brownlongearedbat do you have any recommendations for a wireless monitor. I'd like one but would love a reliable recommendation, as some get terrible reviews.

So I've just checked my spreadsheet and over the last 3 years we've used 3500-4000 litres of oil per year. I never thought much of it as it costs us £1500-£2000 per year which didn't seem diabolical.

House is 160sqm, old mill. The insulation is not fab and the windows are draughty. I suspect the main culprit is our oil guzzling aga though. I work from home and have small kids so the heating is on 7-10am and then again at 3pm-9pm (boosted in the middle of the day when its cold). Hot water on for an hour twice a day. We really only heat the downstairs as I don't like a cozy bedroom. We added wireless thermostats to our radiators etc last year so now have much greater control by room.

I am shocked that it sounds like our oil usage is double most. I did estimate the aga was costing us £500-£900 a year but wondered if i was over calculating.

When we do the extension we will effectively insulate a third of the house (and the extension is over the top insulated with triple glazing). We will also get rid of the aga.

Sounds like next winters oil top ups could be interesting!

@BlackAlys

In the same dilemma and have been tempted to replace LPG with oil. Have been advised that oil, while cheaper to buy, can be problematic. If any moisture gets into the tank during deliver, then it causes boiler issues that won't be covered by the warranty.

It's a common problem apparently.

@BlackAlys I've owned oil for 35 years and have never had this problem or heard of anyone with it.

In my experience oil is very very reliable. The horror stories are almost always because someone has some pre-war style oil tank that has 2 inches of crap at the bottom.

I installed a new tank and boiler 3 years ago and it blooming lovely - it's an HRM WallStar (British made) and super reliable. It's unique as it slots into the wall and occupies very little space. With the burner being on the outside there is no chance of oil smells either.

[quote Muststopeating]**@Brownlongearedbat do you have any recommendations for a wireless monitor. I'd like one but would love a reliable recommendation, as some get terrible reviews.

So I've just checked my spreadsheet and over the last 3 years we've used 3500-4000 litres of oil per year. I never thought much of it as it costs us £1500-£2000 per year which didn't seem diabolical.

House is 160sqm, old mill. The insulation is not fab and the windows are draughty. I suspect the main culprit is our oil guzzling aga though. I work from home and have small kids so the heating is on 7-10am and then again at 3pm-9pm (boosted in the middle of the day when its cold). Hot water on for an hour twice a day. We really only heat the downstairs as I don't like a cozy bedroom. We added wireless thermostats to our radiators etc last year so now have much greater control by room.

I am shocked that it sounds like our oil usage is double most. I did estimate the aga was costing us £500-£900 a year but wondered if i was over calculating.

When we do the extension we will effectively insulate a third of the house (and the extension is over the top insulated with triple glazing). We will also get rid of the aga.

Sounds like next winters oil top ups could be interesting![/quote]
@Brownlongearedbat We have a 260 sqm detached house which has fairly good insulation. I too keep a spreadsheet of oil usage and in the last calendar year, we used 1800L of oil. Hot water is on constantly and I don't like a cold house, so it never dips below 19 anytime during the day. We too have wireless rads (EvoHome) which saved us a bundle.

4000l for 160sqm is impressive! That's about 40,000 kwh - UK Average per year is about 12,000!!

there are some people who poke a hosepipe into your tank and steal the oil.

any signs of that?

I did hear a while back that lots of Irish oil-fired Agas got scrapped last time the oil price shot up. It's not especially high just now.

So I've just done some research into aga oil consumption... had never bothered before because until we could redo the kitchen we couldn't swap the aga.

It is a very old traditional model and it looks like 2000l a year is an entirely average estimate of oil they burn. I was worried about the house being cold when we get rid of it, but my goodness can I afford an awful lot of extra heating before I come close to breaking even.

Re. 12,000kwh even getting rid of the aga we won't come close to it. Just checked the EPC (E) and it has an estimated heat and hot water demand of 22k kwh per year. We are also in NE Scotland so temperature/weather is not on our side. However, I'm still excited about how much we'll save on oil bills after next month.

@PigletJohn oil theft is definitely an issue when you live as rurally as we do. However, until recently (we relocated the tank as it was in the way of the extension) it was extremely well concealed. Moreover, our tops up have been very consistent in the 3.5 years we've lived here so it would of had to be little and often thefts. Not impossible but unlikely.

And I do absolutely trust the local oil supply company we use.

OP. This thread has been a revelation to me in how much my aga actually costs to run. Does your friend have one? Could well be the issue!

Hi everyone. Apologies for absence, been mobbed at work.

No aga. Heating only on for an hour in morning. An hour at lunch and from 6pm to 9pm. Hot water on for 45 mins twice a day.

CCTV signs all around the property and camera are in view! So don't think it's theft. New Bunded ( thank you ! ) tank and pipes should have eliminated any leaks.

I think I might phone the oil people on their behalf and see if that helps them realise that others are looking into this for them, so if they are taking the mick, it might stop.

I'm now on two minds about air source heat pump. Thinking New oil boiler, but not sure . I know it's not my problem but I'm invested now. Don't want them to have to make a decision on their own.

Think the next steps are to get various quotes in and then make a more informed decision.

I was aware oil agas munch through loads of oil as other friends have one. Beautiful though.

Size of the cottage must be approx 20m x 6.5m I think, with two floors.

Do you have bare floorboards downstairs, or open-plan?

Id just say - For the sake of the environment - try and avoid future use of fossil fuels.

They have flagstone floors in first third, then tiles, the suspended wood floor.

Yes re fossil fuel issue to be kind to planet, that's how conversation started with them, thank you for reminding me as I'd forgotten that was a main reason to not have another oil boiler.

Rooms lead into next rooms, not open plan, one room vaulted.

I replaced mine with electric. Largely as it was the middle of winter, I was in a hurry (it was snowing!) and I needed planning permission to do anything else - no gas.

I haven't regretted electric - the boiler was massively cheaper than anything else to install.

Yes it's more expensive in bills but it will be 20 years of bills before it's cost the same as installing Calor gas/new oil boiler/heat pump would have been for me.

It's totally silent and doesn't need any servicing.

With more time to decide I might have gone for an air source heat pump but I still think that would have been a problem for me - I don't think my house would have been suitable.

We put in an ASHP 3 years ago to replace our oil boiler and its been brilliant.

Our old boiler was in the understairs cupboard so under current legislation we would have had to move it if replacing so that would have been complicated.

We get the subsidy so the coat of installation will be covered. We Did have to upgrade a couple of radiators but the new system works fine. However, our 50 year old house has double glazing, CWI and is pretty well built. An older, less insulated property might be more of a challenge to fit an ASHP

Oh it has double glazing and loads of Kingspan in the roof. So it's quite well insulated. But keeps cool in summer. It's Cobb mostly. Probably built at least a century ago if not more ? ( I'll ask )