Replace ing oil boiler with what ?

[121hugsneeded]

Asking for a friend who lives in remote location.

They currently have an old ( 30years plus) oil boiler as no mains gas.

Options we have chatted through on the phone yesterday were :

1. Replace with new oil boiler

1. Replace with LPG boiler and bew lpg tank

1. Replace with electric boiler

1. Replace with some new method that neither of us knew anything about - pellets - or heat from air ? Or from ground ? But that's where the knowledges is lacking!

Can anyone help us work out a good solution please. TIA

• new lpg tank ( forgot to proof read -sorry )

Also considering this. I discounted a pellet biomass as there is the potential for someone else to control the price (like oil). I’m looking at air source heat pump (but I want to hear the noise levels of one operating as this sort of noise tends to bother me ) or a ground source heat pump. Obviously these are expensive to install but are renewable energy sources so possibly grants are available.

Electric boilers are insanely expensive so avoid these. I don’t have any experience or knowledge of lpg to comment..

We replaced ours about 10 yrs ago with a woodburning stove and back burner and solat panels for hot water in summer. It's great but a lot of work. You need to be here to keep it lit.

Friends are replacing theirs now with a similar system but with a pellet feed. So they use logs when they are around but overnight and if they are out the pellet feeder takes over.

We recently replaced our internal oil boiler with an external Grant boiler (again oil) and we're very happy with it. We also put an air source heat pump in our annexe and that's been great. Downsides are that it is slightly noisy (a gentle whirring) and there is a breeze from it which can be annoying if you're right under it, but it's economical to run, quick to heat up and it's amazing in the summer when it can also be an air conditioner. I think if I had to choose between the two though for our main living space (the annexe is mainly an office and games room so not used all day) then I would go with the oil boiler and a separate air conditioner.

Air Source Heat-Pump.
These are brilliant!! - they're not as expensive as ground source heat pumps, and you don't need to dig a massive space to install them. They don't take any work once they are put in place, they're quite small, and although the old versions used to be quite noisy, new versions are almost silent. You may get a green home energy grant towards them too.

You could have them with Solar Thermal Panels too which, unlike other solar panels, only heat hot water. Hot water solar thermal panels are much more efficient than electricity generating solar panels, as your water will be scalding even on a cloudy day.

The oil boiler in our new house was condemned, so we're in this position!

Looked at a gas tank in the garden, but there were specific access requirements we couldn't meet.

We've gone with an air source heat pump - the quietest one we could find, using the grant to pay the cost back. It's not fitted yet, so it's encouraging to hear positive things!

Oh brilliant posts thank you all
I can see a long phone call coming up today ! And a lot of internet scouring Thank you !

Been looking at this site www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2016/02/pros-and-cons-of-air-source-heat-pumps
Loads of info ! Think this might be the way to go!

Heat source heat pumps run at lower temps than oil/ gas heating, if your house isn’t super insulated and draught free then the heat will not be able to build up ( this is how they are designed to work , ufh, large area rads etc ). Do your homework before you go down this route. They are good for new builds but not so good for retrofitting into old houses. 👍

Electric is wildly expensive, only good when you have no other option.

Heat Pumps are expensive to install, most likely will require new rads or underfloor heating as they run cooler. If your house is not insulated well you may find the house struggles to come to a comfortable temp. I'm not a fan of these except in new builds.

LPG Tank - More expensive than oil, stuck with a single supplier for the length of a contract. Cannot shop around for the best price.

LPG Bottles - More expensive than electric! Don't go there.

Oil - If your installation is 30+ years you may need a new tank too - check. Might need a new oil line from tank to the boiler as well. Modern oil boilers are very efficient and reliable. You should see your bills drop.

If your friends are concerned about environmental impact then they should really really well insulate their house. This can be costly.

@Chumleymouse

Heat source heat pumps run at lower temps than oil/ gas heating, if your house isn’t super insulated and draught free then the heat will not be able to build up ( this is how they are designed to work , ufh, large area rads etc ). Do your homework before you go down this route. They are good for new builds but not so good for retrofitting into old houses. 👍

Absolutely this! I am extending an old mill which is very draughty. As part of the extension work we are replacing the boiler so i have done a LOT of research on this (I am an overthinker).

We are getting a Grant external boiler, similar to above. I just don't think heat pumps (air or ground) are suitable for old houses, they'll pay through the teeth for electric. There are interest free loans available and RHI payments which can make up for most of the cost, but I am very confident that we'd be left with an electricity bill that is considerablt higher than our oil bill. You also need a lot of space for the pump and tanks which must be in an insulated shelter or the house... can't be outside.

Quotes:

Oil boiler (incluidng new hot water tank) = £7.5k
ASHP = £10-12k
GSHP = £18-22k (we would need a bore hole which is more expensive than the lines, but that takes masses of ground (we have 4 acres but not in the right format).

I'm in the process of replacing an oil boiler with an air source heat pump. I do have an old building but I spent a lot of money some years ago on internal solid wall insulation. This has made a massive difference in terms of heat retention.

I'm combining it with solar thermal for hot water production. The whole place will get new bigger radiators. Hot water tank will need to be replaced to get a bigger one. I have space for hot water tank, pumps and it won't require structural changes.

In an ideal world I'm going to get a wind turbine to produce electricity to reduce electric bill in the next phase.

new oil boiler. Why?

• oil is still cheapest per unit heat and has been VERY cheap recently. A new boiler will use far less oil, it will take years to recoup the expenditure but it is still the cheapest option even if the tank also needs replacing.

• air source = electric heating = VERY expensive and going to get worse. As someone else mentions, unless a well-insulated modern building, air source simply won't keep it warm enough.

wood pellets are greenwash - might as well burn wood rather than process it and transport it from America.

LPG is expensive.

spend on insulation which means you use less of whatever it is. Solar panels with batteries also a possible for electrical independence - according to most EPCs will take around a century to pay back so no cost justification. Same as a wind turbine would.

Approx cost per KwH

Oil - 4.2p
Mains Gas - 3p
Electric - 14p

Our oil boiler was replaced with an air source heat pump and it is absolutely brilliant, quite miraculous to me. You do not necessarily need under floor heating, ours is connected to existing radiators. Toasty warm house and enough hot water for a family of 6 seemly from thin air. I would like too add panels and a battery for energy generation to power the pump, then we'd be pretty self sufficient.

@TobyHouseMan not quite , actual cost needs to account for boiler efficiency. I'll post a link when I can although oil is now slightly pricier than gas. Not for me though as I am still on last year's fill. Electricity prices are really rocketing and are predicted to double in a few years.

@murbblurb

new oil boiler. Why?

• oil is still cheapest per unit heat and has been VERY cheap recently. A new boiler will use far less oil, it will take years to recoup the expenditure but it is still the cheapest option even if the tank also needs replacing.

• air source = electric heating = VERY expensive and going to get worse. As someone else mentions, unless a well-insulated modern building, air source simply won't keep it warm enough.

wood pellets are greenwash - might as well burn wood rather than process it and transport it from America.

LPG is expensive.

spend on insulation which means you use less of whatever it is. Solar panels with batteries also a possible for electrical independence - according to most EPCs will take around a century to pay back so no cost justification. Same as a wind turbine would.

I'm changing because I don't think oil use is sustainable long term.

Oil is cheap recently but should the economy rise I'd expect the price of oil to do the same.

Electric is more expensive but you get 3x heat to electric plus RHI payment so it's fine.

I would say Installer told me they are more expensive to run in winter but I have 2 x wood stoves that I tend to light if we're at home in winter.

My understanding is 3x return is optimistic and about as good as it can get. All depends on the installation, the external conditions etc which result in a score (SCOP I think) which you don't know for sure until its installed.

Interesting point about electricity doubling, I hadn't heard that. But feeling more validated in my choice.

Also re. Oil price. I work in the industry, as do both my brothers and husband and have done since it was 120p/l and ssw it hit 30p/l (in fact 0 for a weird overnight market broken phemomenan). It has been very low since 2014 and is still very low. It will go up, but it isn't going to double anytime soon. Not without someone blowing up an OPEC country and if Trump didn't do it...

That being said, if sustainability not cost is your deciding factor, then electricity is definitely the way forward!

Moreover, goodness knows what the government will do about oil boilers in the not so distant future... (told you I was an overthinker).

Old draughty houses are difficult. We have the wrong floors for under floor heating. No mains gas. Wood pellets take a lot of space and the green credentials are dubious. Listed so no solar.

Give it a few years and we'll all be on green hydrogen.

For now, we have a super efficient oil boiler. Wood burner fuelled from our land. Masses of insulation. Heavy door and window curtains. Oil usage reduced by a third.

We replaced our 23 year old oil burner with air source heat pump last summer We're happy with it , and get the RHI payment.

The electricity bill has gone up but by less than the oil costs.
We would have had to replace our oil tank and were advised it would need to be moved or some heat resistant material put between it and the fence. By the time we did this and replaced the boiler there was not a great difference in cost. The oil has gone up from 24p per litre to 41p since we changed, so oil prices definately on the up again
Look at the energy saving trust for useful info.
I wouldn't consider LPG.

You need to consider the electric tariffs that are available in your location. I know people who have a weird two tariff solution (total heat total control from Scottish power, iirc). They pay massively lower tariff for the energy used to run their air source heat pump than they do for their oven, lighting etc.

BUT when they retrofitted it into their house they did replace all the radiators with underfloor.

Having said that, it's always warm in their house, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say for my coup.

I was told that gas boilers are being phased out in new developments probably to be replaced with air source heat pumps. I'd agree oil boilers will be discouraged at some point.

In all honesty I'm hedging my bets as I'm retaining my oil fired Aga which along with the wood stoves is capable of heating the house. It doesn't need electric to run so handy during the annual power cut. If it turns out ashp is too expensive/ ineffective in the winter months I'll switch and use Plan B when it's properly cold.

Possibly I'm an overthinker too but I've found living rurally it's best to have a backup for everything :)

[quote murbblurb]@TobyHouseMan not quite , actual cost needs to account for boiler efficiency. I'll post a link when I can although oil is now slightly pricier than gas. Not for me though as I am still on last year's fill. Electricity prices are really rocketing and are predicted to double in a few years.[/quote]
Correct. Gas and Oil are comparable though as both have about the same efficiency.

Corrected for boiler efficiency of 90% costs is approx:

Oil - 4.72p (Where current cost is 44 p/l)
Mains Gas - 3.26p
Electric - 14p - The same, as Electric should be close to 100%

If anyone is interested you can look at the spreadsheet I made to calculate the total cost of heating with the different methods per year.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WM93JY--w1iI1SL9Emye3ei55iBMqM_-v8wOSPLwn0Y/edit?usp=sharing

If you want to play around with the figures, make a copy and fiddler with the blue values.

I'd be interested if anyone can suggest improvements to this.

We were almost one of the last houses to get solar power on the original tariff, although the cost was high, we'll definitely have paid back the cost of installation + the cost of all our fuel/electricity since installation. Once generating over 2Kw it heats the hot water too.
We swapped our old oil boiler for a Rayburn 600 series which has hot water and cooker all on timers. I now only cook electric when on solar.
We gain back almost £1K a year above the cost of our electricity + oil (small well insulated house), when our 25 years payback is up I might invest in air source or wind power, will see what's available in a few years time - if we've not moved.

@womaninatightspot

"Electric is more expensive but you get 3x heat to electric plus RHI payment so it's fine."

What does that mean?