How slow is the court process for evicting tenants now?

[swashbucklin]

So I'm buying a property which has tenants that won't move. We're in an area where there are lots of properties coming to the market all the time, but they are being let fast. They know the property they are in is a good deal and others of that size would be 50% more rent. Anyhow, the 6 months of section 21 notice should end in July. Presumably they will continue to be difficult so will need to be taken to court, how long with this process take? It's private, I understand it takes longer for council and housing association evictions. I believe all the s.21 paperwork is in order so I'm just calculating whether to get a mortgage application in now (it will be valid for 6 months) or wait another few months. I don't know what the mortgage landscape will be like in a few months time, will it be worse? Is anyone else going through similar or in this industry so has a good feel for this?

I don’t understand your issue.

You say the tenants won’t move and need to be evicted, but that you don’t expect them to move until July when their contract ends, state that it’s terrible when people won’t adhere to their contract but then the tenants have said to arrange curtain fitting at end of July, presumably as they will be leaving at that point.

What’s your complaint exactly?

@daryldixonsdreamgirl

You would be bonkers to offer cash to them as I'm guessing you haven't exchanged yet? As you're supposed to exchange on vacant possession. If you offer the tenants 1k in cash for example and then the owner decided to sell the house to someone else? Either party can decide not to sell for any reason until exchange has happened. You've lost out financially with no recourse because you don't have a contract with the seller.

Good point, I'll hold out on offering cash.

@PurpleBiro21

I don’t understand your issue.

You say the tenants won’t move and need to be evicted, but that you don’t expect them to move until July when their contract ends, state that it’s terrible when people won’t adhere to their contract but then the tenants have said to arrange curtain fitting at end of July, presumably as they will be leaving at that point.

What’s your complaint exactly?

I'm looking at all options but ultimately all I'm asking is how long the court process is at present, preferably to be answered by someone in that line of work or has gone through it recently. The rest is immaterial.

On one level, Op could just be asking about the worst case scenario to understand the timescales that could be involved. However, the tone of annoyance and sense she has of the tenants being unco-operative suggests a lack of understanding of notice periods and tenant rights which LLs really should understand and simply accept as the legal system they joined by becoming LLs, rather than feeling annoyed when tenants expect notice periods to mean exactly that.

It is absolutely the case that the tenants have a right to live in the property until their notice period expires and there should not be an expectation they leave sooner. They do not have to let people come into the property for curtain measuring or similar and to suggest that OP contacts them nearer the end of the notice period is both sensible and actually shows that they are helpful, rather than just saying no.

This response also suggests to me that they are likely to leave as the notice period expires. There is nothing to indicate anything else.

If however, they choose not to go, then eviction proceedings would need to start. Councils advise tenants who want housing from them to remain and wait for legal eviction proceedings to take their course, and that they will only house if people are made homeless. If they simply move out at the end of the tenancy the council will not do this. This is why some tenants do not move out as notice expires. There is nothing to suggest these tenants might be seeking council accommodation and so will remain. However, there is a possibility if it, so OP is right to be aware of it and yes, it can take months or longer than a year for tenants to then be legally evicted....and it is vital to go through the proper channels.

So, there are rules and procedures for everyone’s protection. Notice periods are exactly that. Tenants should not be expected to go sooner because it suits the owner or someone buying a property. There are procedures for a situation where tenants still don’t go. All of this can take months or over a year.....from the giving notice (6 months needed at moment, plus cannot be given until 2 months before fixed term) to possibly having to follow up with eviction proceedings.

BUT, Landlords know or should know this legal process and anyone looking to buy a tenanted property should know this process and the timescales. It’s no good moaning about it and saying it’s not right Landlords cannot get their properties right. You go into being a LL knowing the law and if you don’t, you’re a fool and are still bound by it.

So there is money to be made by being a LL, but also legal obligations and processes and these must be stuck to.

Op sounds cross about the timescales and critical of the tenants. They have done nothing wrong nor indicated they will do. It is worth being aware of worst case scenarios, but LLs also need to be aware of tenant rights and the system they as LLs are part of and not see wrong-doing where there is none. It is entirely their right to be there until notice expires. If they remain after (and no indication they will) well yes, that will be annoying, but again, there are processes to deal with it and you know as a LL that there is always a risk of that happen8ngand you just have to go through the process.

They don't have to vacate until the very last day of the notice period. They don't have to allow anyone into their home either apart from inspections.

So from your comments via the agent all they have said is come back to measure up for curtains nearer the end of the tenancy.

I'm not understanding why you think they won't vacate. Nothing you have said suggests they won't. If fact they are very likely to vacate as they need good references from the agency and their deposit back to rent again.

This issue is for their landlord and freeholder. And as others have said you can't take ownership until the house is vacant, contracts cannot be exchanged. So it's for the landlord selling the property to make sure it's vacant.

You could offer them a cash incentive for them to move early. Maybe offer to pay their deposit in the next rental so they don't have to juggle funds. Then at least you know they are actively looking.

If I was them I'd not want the disturbance of moving until it suited my family. If I'd paid for a tenancy and been given 6 months notice that's what I'd take, because it's not a case of swapping rental properties, there are schools, pets, size, cost, location and many more things to get right. The right property may come up for them in the next few months, it also may not.

If I were you I would be looking for another house. You stand to lose your mortgage offer, your searches, and your legal fees.

And as a buyer, you are daft to be looking at tenanted properties. It’s been said before.

The vendor shouldn’t be selling a property with tenanats in it, because the vendor cannot know for sure when they will go. yes, they have been given notice and they probably will go at the end of this, but they might not. You cannot exchange and a mortgage will not be released while tenants are physically in the building.

This is why most LLs accident and understand when becoming LLs, that selling is an expensive business that has to be planned ahead for. They know they essentially need the property vacant before they start marketing. Most buyers will not consider a tenanted property for the reasons above and solicitors advice against proceeding. The LL , before they can market needs to give the required notice and wait for the tenant to go. This could involve going through eviction oroceeedings if they do t go which takes much longer. They have to accept they will market the property untenanated and so not earn rent in that period. That’s just how it works.

Any Landlord or any buyer trying to organise a sale with a tenant I. The property (unless the buyer is a LL and taking in the tenant) is daft to be honest. The timescales are totally uncertain and no solicitor would advise proceeding with such a sale.

OP I am in exactly the same situation as you. You don’t have the right to go into do measuring etc until the last 28 days of their notice period

"They don't have to vacate until the very last day of the notice period."

England - that's incorrect. They don't have to vacate until the day the bailiff arrives. The notice period is simply notice of legal action.

Your comment... 'Presumably they they will continue to be difficult '.....how are they being difficult when they are not due to leave till July?

Can I ask a couple of questions?
Is it true that the tenants have to pay the LLs legal costs if it goes to court to ask them to leave?
Do the tenants have to pay any rent in the up to 2 years they are waiting to be evicted?
If not, why don't all tenants do this?

Absolutely. The LL hopes the tenant will go sometime during their notice period. However, until a bailiff evicts the, following all the legal proceedings, they do not have to vacate.

Anyone becoming a LL or being daft enough to offer in a tenanted property NEEDS to know this stuff. It is the law and tenants are entitled to it. It’s no good as a LL feeling cross Barbour it or an a buyer feeling cross about the timescales.....don’t get into being a LL or offering on tenanted property if you do t understand how it works or aren’t prepared to accept the law.

Why are you people trying to buy tenanted properties?
Haven’t your solicitors advised against and pointed out the tenants are entitled to their full notice period and could be there behind that until they are legally evicted and the bailiff removes them?

Dont you know that your mortgage companies won’t lend the money and you can’t exchange until the property is vacant. And it might be the LL wants to sell and you want to buy, but the tenant has signed a legal agreement with the LL which gives them rights about timescales....the fact they are inconvenient to you is irrelevant.

Why are you trying to buy these properties and why are the LLs trying to sell them with tenants in situ. I’ll tell you why they are trying to sell like this....because they don’t want to market an empty property and lose rent. But that is a necessity for selling. LLs are greedy for trying to do this, but you as buyers shouldn’t entertain the idea and know this could take more than a year and your mortgage offer may well expire.

@Pepperminttea16

OP I am in exactly the same situation as you. You don’t have the right to go into do measuring etc until the last 28 days of their notice period

They don't have to let people in to measure up at any point.

A Section 21 is an intention to get the property back after that date, and is the earliest a landlord can apply to court for eviction. Legally the tenants do not have to leave in July. At the current moment for standard S21 evictions there is a back log of 12-18 months for court action. So you could be looking at 18-24 months before you get entry to your new place.

Personally I would look elsewhere and buy something else. It could all be fine, but they sound like they know the system and will use it well.

@Pepperminttea16

OP I am in exactly the same situation as you. You don’t have the right to go into do measuring etc until the last 28 days of their notice period

Who told you this bull? They don't have to let you in for any reason at any time (baring an emergency where a landlord can force entry but that is for gas leak, fire etc...)

It’s really unfortunate or foolish to make an offer in a property without understanding the implications of there being tenants there. Perhaps this thread is helping people realise why they shouldn’t be oroceeeding....but she’s should know that stuff BEFORE offering and if by some chance they haven’t, their solicitor should point it out pretty damn quick and say it’s not proccedable.

Instead, we have buyers who are annoyed without cause. Annoyed that the tenants are still there (in a property they have a legal contract to be in, until they choose to leave during the notice period or are legally removed from by an eviction process) and annoyed that they aren’t facilitating them to plan their curtains.

The tenant has zero interest or responsibility towards a buyer. The buyer should not be making contact with a tenant. The only person the tenant should have dealings with is the Lanldord or their agent. Their agreement is with them and it is nothing to do with any potential buyer who has foolishly offered on a tenanted property. That tenant can be there until their notice period extends and they can be there if they then don’t go until the legal process removes them. At no point will they have dealings or should they have dealings with any potential buyer and the fact that there is one is none of their concern. They should totally ignore it and continue with their tenancy that they are legally entitled to and deal with the Landlord or their agent as their contract specifies.

@highlightsonlyplease

Can I ask a couple of questions? Is it true that the tenants have to pay the LLs legal costs if it goes to court to ask them to leave? Do the tenants have to pay any rent in the up to 2 years they are waiting to be evicted? If not, why don't all tenants do this?

Both statements are not true

Fantastic post @WombatChocolate.

I would increase the rent. May be quicker than court.

We are tenants and we’ve just been issued 6 months notice to vacate. Arranging to leave earlier needs to agreed between the tenants and the landlord, but is not a legal requirement. And they don’t have to let you into the property, it’s still their home for the time being.

We’re actually in the process of agreeing to leave in 3 months instead of 6 because we have somewhere else to go, but not everyone is lucky like us.

As I said, it’s their home. They don’t need to move earlier or let you in to measure curtains or whatever. They have up until the notice end date to leave.

I really wish people would read up on tenants right before posting as well. You can’t just increase rent whenever you want!

@Zig4zag

I would increase the rent. May be quicker than court.

You can’t simply “increase the rent” willy nilly.

There is a contract in place and there are laws and regulations that the landlord has to abide by to protect the tenants who are doing nothing wrong.

@Zig4zag eh?...she doesn't even own the property yet so how can she increase the rent?

@Zig4zag

I would increase the rent. May be quicker than court.

You can't increase the rent during the notice period

OP, it is worth remembering that the tenants are unlikely to leave early as they are often still liable for rent during that period unless the landlord agrees to an early end. I have rented for years and never left early. Always left on time though.

It is a risk though, and one you can't really plan for because you have no idea if they will leave on time, 6 months late or after the court process (easily over a year, particularly as there is a huge COVID-related backlog).

@ChloeCrocodile

OP, it is worth remembering that the tenants are unlikely to leave early as they are often still liable for rent during that period unless the landlord agrees to an early end. I have rented for years and never left early. Always left on time though.

It is a risk though, and one you can't really plan for because you have no idea if they will leave on time, 6 months late or after the court process (easily over a year, particularly as there is a huge COVID-related backlog).

Actually they can leave with 1 month notice as long as the fixed term has expired