What would you do - extension or fancy patio? Also - loft.

[littlepeas]

I'm going to do bullet points to prevent waffling - trying to decide what to do:

• Mid terrace 3 storey house - kitchen diner on ground floor, alongside a small sitting room (snug) and a study. Main sitting room is on the 1st floor.

• Kitchen/diner is an ok size - 6mx4m - plenty of room for a big dining table, but not for a sofa, etc.

• Garden is not very big. Currently have a horrible decked area that will either become extension or patio. It's about 1/5 of the whole garden BUT the rest of the garden is sloping and tricky, so if we extend there won't be anywhere for a table, etc in the garden.

Would you:

A - Add 5.5mx3m extension - bifolds and atrium - a bit like an orangery but the sides are walls. The kitchen and dining areas would stay as they are and the extension would be a downstairs sitting room - all open plan.

B - Don't extend but landscape the garden to create a really gorgeous outdoor room style patio/terrace and make the rest of the garden more useable (next door have stepped their garden and it looks amazing). We are prepared to spend quite a bit to make it really special.

Both options will involve a new kitchen. Total budget is £100K.

I can't decide whether it's better to have more room in the house - it's biggish, but not huge - about 2000 sq ft - the extension would add about 200 sq ft. I get a bit lonely when I'm cooking, as everyone sits upstairs! But then, we don't use the garden as much as we could as we don't have anywhere nice to sit. If we did the extension we wouldn't be able to afford the landscaping work for quite a while.

Second question - would you bother converting the loft if you already had 5 decent sized bedrooms and 3 floors? Another thing we're pondering. It would probably be a workspace/studio for me, but could be a bedroom if we sold the house.

I'd say A) because presumably you'll use the kitchen for more time out of the year than the garden

@IstandwithJackieWeaver

You don't need to spend £40k on a new kitchen either - we were quoted £30k for our kitchen but actually did it and a load of other work for a lot less.

I'm prepared to spend whatever it takes on the kitchen - it's probably going to be my only chance to have a new kitchen - I've always put up with what was there is previous houses and I doubt we'll move from this house. The kitchen is priority over everything else - I spend a lot of time in there.

That said - if there are ways and means of saving money without compromising on quality/materials then I am definitely interested in hearing how to do it. We are looking at deVol and a local cabinet maker at the moment.

Do you actually need a bigger kitchen, or a sociable space beside it...or do you need to just make the kitchen area you’ve already got more sociable (so you’re not cooking in there on your own?). 4m x 6m is a reasonable size. As you’re looking at pretty high-end kitchens, could the design fit a window seat, eg at the end of a run of units? An island with bar stools? Basically, something to make your family want to hang out in the kitchen whilst you cook.

I just think that making the kitchen bigger might not solve the problem of you being in there alone whilst everyone else is in living room upstairs - won’t people still just go there?

The garden sounds like it could be made really great (patio, terracing with something different on each level, etc), without investing an insane amount into it.

I’d not do the loft conversion - I think you’d feel pretty isolated on the top floor, it’d not add to house value, and there are probably better solutions (garden room?).

Extrnd on ground floor and I bet you'll find you don't use your first floor livngroom so that could be your workroom. Adding a loft conversion to a house already with small footprint will make it very top heavy, and I don't think you have enough money to do both anyway. £100k is not over the top for an extension plus new kitchen, though leveling part of the garden would be a priority too.

If you extend, would your 1st floor living room become another bedroom? Then you wouldn't need the loft conversion.

You could spend a bit of money making the loft a useful storage space, improving ladder access, putting some boards down and shelves up. Wouldn't add value but would make your life easier, if that's an issue.

Where in the country are you? I’d expect to be able to do the extension, a new kitchen and the patio for £50k in the north west. A friend just spend £100k on a 2 storey wraparound extension which has doubled the size of her house, new kitchen and new driveway all fully finished.

OP look at DIY Kitchens too. All the trades we had doing work on our kitchen remarked how good the quality is and two of my friends have ordered their kitchens from them having seen ours.

Well we’ve started ripping up the decking today and there is a manhole smack bang in the middle of the area that would have been the extension! That makes the decision easier - new kitchen and garden improvements it is!

Manholes cam be moved...

Thank you for all your advice everyone.

Unfortunately the manhole can't be moved easily. We can still get a 3x3m space that opens out into the kitchen and would fit a large sofa, but I'm unsure if it's too much of a compromise. Concerns:

• Is it too small? Is it worth it?

• Is it just a glorified conservatory? One fully glazed wall, bifolds and some glass in the ceiling/roof too. It was an orangery before really, but because it was the whole width of the house and the side walls were brick it felt less conservatory like and more like it would be part of the house. The people doing it are calling the new design a 'garden room'.

• I can't believe I'm typing this, but the configuration will make it difficult to fit a TV - if there isn't a TV then I don't think it will make that much overall difference to how much time my family spend with me in the kitchen!

• We will end up with a fairly large dining kitchen (6x4m) and two small sitting rooms downstairs - neither can replace our large upstairs sitting room (also 6x4m), but both would serve a purpose. Our current snug is essentially a music room, with piano, etc - the piano can't go anywhere else. So we'd have this extra space, but it wouldn't necessarily free up another room in the house - hope that makes sense.

• We will be left with a small patio area - not sure whether this is a pro or a con tbh - we will probably still need to dig out more patio for what we want to achieve.

If we increase our budget slightly, we should just about have enough to do the 'garden room', new kitchen and landscaping, but I can't decide whether it would be better to use all the space for a really beautiful patio with built in seating, fire pit, etc.

I'm finding it stressful and difficult to decide. We need to do things like move the boiler regardless of what we do (as it also interferes with the kitchen design in its current location).

I'll try and attach some images.

I think we're on the edge of deciding against doing it and just focusing on the kitchen and garden. It feels like there are too many compromises.

Can you post a floorplan?

I would keep the outside space as outside space - I really don't like houses that have swallowed their gardens and left a disproportionate scrap. With that kind of budget you could design something really fantastic that flowed beautifully from the house and made your inside space feel bigger - possibly incorporating an outside kitchen/eating area?

Gardens are so important for wellbeing, as well as for urban wildlife. That would be in the balance for me.

I wouldn't bother with the faff of extending the loft if you have plentiful space already. Remember that once you've got the space, you've got to heat it, clean it, maintain it. Our house is bigger than we need and we have rooms I don't go into from one week to the next so I'm speaking from experience here. Good design gives everyone what they need without excess.

Would there be any way of building a balcony/terrace leading off your first floor sitting room and coming down into the garden? That might be a nice way to connect up the space.

I think you'd already decided before posting that you wanted a 40k kitchen and wow patio so I don't know why you bothered.

I haven't decided anything yet - I am very much still mulling things over. I posted because I am confused and finding it difficult to weigh up extra space in the house (but taking away from an already quite small garden) vs maximising the garden. It's interesting to hear how other people view these things. I really don't want to make an expensive mistake.

I would really try to find some way of opening up the ground floor. Having the family on the first floor watching TV while you cook sounds miserable tbh. It may be possible to open up under the stairs, and/or move the loo.

Do you have a floorplan?

Have you spoken to an architect ? I thing @Chasingsquirrels has it and whilst I get your dilemma, you may find you end up with a snug and a or living room upstairs which don't get much use if you do the big extension.

Overall, I would probably (if you can't open up the snug or move/open up stairs) I would go for the larger extension but make it as open as possible so you maximise the flow between kitchen and garden.

I’ve hopefully posted a downstairs floor plan! I’ve never posted pics before - fingers crossed it works.

The study is full of fitted cupboards at the moment - these will be ripped out. We’ve talked a lot about reconfiguring things in terms of the two smaller rooms but it’s difficult to see how it might work.

Dimensions are roughly:

Kitchen 6x4
Snug 3x4
Study 2x3.5

which way does the garden face, a 3 storey house will cast quite a shadow on it for most of the year if it is northerly?

I should add as well, that I’d like the upstairs sitting room to stay as a sitting room - it has beautiful views and a wood burner and I really like the room.

@Ifailed

which way does the garden face, a 3 storey house will cast quite a shadow on it for most of the year if it is northerly?

It’s South East.

Garden gets sun for most of the day - it just gets further and further away from the house as the day goes on!

So for the later part of the day, even in summer, the proposed patio area is in shade?