FTB putting pressure on chain

[InescapableDeath]

We sold in November to a FTB. We're really close to exchange but our vendor's purchase (end of chain) has moved slightly slower. We were hoping to move by end of March for stamp duty but knew all along this might not happen.

Last week FTB suddenly revealed their rent renews on a six-month basis at the end of March and they need to be in by 25th at the latest. This just isn't possible. Vendor isn't prepared to move into rented for the sake of a few weeks and nor are we (both of us have small children in school and family rentals are hard to find here).

Buyer has apparently been ringing up the Estate agent five times a day yelling at them about this. Today they wanted to complete by March 12! Anyway EA is so annoyed they've said they're going to give our buyer an ultimatum: accept the move is likely to be in April, or pull out and the house (ours!) will go back on the market.

I'm really worried here. Does anyone think there's a chance the FTB is bluffing? They are a couple with no dependents already renting. It seems to me it should be easier for them to negotiate another month or two of rent, or move into short term rental.

Has anyone ever offered money to FTB to help them with the costs of moving twice? I was thinking of offering this but don't want to throw away money if it's not the norm/never works.

I'm assuming the chain is going to fall apart and if our house is hard to sell we will lose our onward purchase, too. So gutted after coming so far. But as already mentioned we can't/won't go into rented ourselves (too long to go into but there's lots of reasons).

I'd have more sympathy if we knew about the buyer's deadline all along, but we didn't. And I have been in this situation myself - when we bought our house we ended up with a big rental overlap and we just got on with it. After all they could pull out and buy another house and that could take a few weeks too long as well.

You accepted their offer four months ago and the stamp duty benefit hinges on this date (though that might change).
I'm not surprised they're pissed off. They want to move. It's up to you whether you help out and move it along or not but don't be angry with them for asking.

It’s a bluff. Assuming uk my understanding is the landlord can’t demand a six month renewal, they just don’t sign and roll onto a periodic tenancy. The landlord could then give notice but with covid rules can’t actually evict. Ask your estate agent/solicitor to point this out to them after checking it is correct.

They might have already told the landlord that they're leaving, but surely there's enough time left that they could negotiate a one month extension. Whoever said upthread is correct, if they don't leave they automatically move onto a rolling month lease anyway, but landlords hate this.

Show you are going as fast as possible - send a detailed email to be passed on to them stating you are committed to the move and detailing everything you are doing to make sure it goes through as fast as possible.

@Trumplosttheelection we are affected by the stamp duty - it doesn't affect our buyer at all. They didn't mention any date they need to be in by. We've been saving up in case we have to pay SD after all - if I was a first time buyer I would be prepared for dates to wiggle a bit as well. The vendor's purchase is only a few weeks behind.

EA is so annoyed they've said they're going to give our buyer an ultimatum: accept the move is likely to be in April, or pull out and the house (ours!) will go back on the market.

This isn’t really your EA’s call to make - but effectively yes, if they don’t accept that the move is delayed then they’ll have to pull out.

There’s no way your vendor can speed up? What’s the hold up, out of interest?

The FTBs can get a new Air BnB, negotiate with their LL, move in with family if someone will have them and pay for storage - they have options. I’d get your vendor and you to offer to pay costs to the FTBs to mitigate the delay.

The hold up is that vendor is buying from a divorced couple who were arguing over where the money would go early on, and that delayed searches etc.

We are ready, solicitor-wise, on our sale and purchase so it is just on them. But if we are not prepared to move out and break the chain I'm not sure I could persuade my seller to either!

Our finances are tied up with the equity in our house and we just can't afford to rent - in any case as you say the FTBs have way more options than we do.

I'd be happy to suggest offering some money towards their costs but that hasn't come up yet. Not sure if best to mention it to EA or solicitor!

They will just go onto a rolling monthly rental, which is what my DD would have had to do if her purchase wasn’t completed by 3 April.

The EA is working for you, so they must not do anything or say anything you do not agree with.

I’d get solicitor to write a letter explaining where you’re all at and what’s happening and why neither you nor vendor can move, and I’d get estate agent to ask FTBs if there’s any financial help (e.g. removal/storage costs) that would assist them in waiting 2 weeks, and make practical suggestions to them about their rental options.

The thing is they now want to move by March 12th (just had an email from the solicitor asking us to complete by then as well!) which is mad, so the reality is the ultimatum really - we simply can't do it so they need to accept or pull out.

I've suggested he tell them to stay in their rental. I vaguely mentioned helping with costs over the phone but nothing specific. Would they expect that cash now even though it could all fall apart until exchange, or could I tie it in to exchange?

Struggling with work and home school this week, so it's all a bit 'not ideal'.

Can you explore the (legal) options of them buying from you, you renting back, & same up the chain? (then they move into short term rental)

Hopefully the SD deadline will get extended a bit tomorrow & take the pressure off

However, I understand their position (though they should have made it clear 4 months ago) - if not by SD deadline, no deal. I have recently sold to FTB and tbh they don't actually have the cash to pay SD so it was clear we had to complete before the deadline, this was also critical to me

Plenty of landlords don’t accept the rolling month thing, so I imagine what’s happened is their landlord has told them to sign up for 6 months by x date or they will be given notice. So if your house sale date is April then they’ve committed to 6 months rent at that point -which is a massive overlap!

They also could have already given notice on their rented accommodation in which case their landlord could have new tenants arriving and they are now panicking that if they aren’t moving into your house they need to find somewhere to live that will probably want 6/12 months rental contract.

If you really want to keep them then I’d offer the cost of a storage container and an Airbnb for a month. They might have had this deadline all along and the estate agents haven’t communicated well.

@InescapableDeath: just seen not a financial impact to them. so, they are putting pressure but actually cannot do anything.

They do have more options than you .. its not necessarily the case they would be able to stay in their place but obviously easier for them than it is for you with kids. Don't offer costs - if they want them, they will ask

How is it that the FTBs will pay no stamp duty, OP? Is your house under £125,000? Are you sure it's not tied to SDLT in any way?

I believe there’s no stamp duty under 300k for ftb (Gov uk site says this - ours is just under that.

To me exchange/completion dates are always a compromise so I just don’t know how the person at the bottom can decide it’s going to happen in ten days and expect everyone else to fall in line!

@InescapableDeath you seem to have a slight tone of superiority regarding the FTB - that you view them as ‘bottom of the pile’. They may well be the bottom of the chain but their wishes/ views/ money is just as important as everyone else’s 🤷‍♀️

@InescapableDeath

I believe there’s no stamp duty under 300k for ftb (Gov uk site says this - ours is just under that.

Ah yes - apologies!

They can't expect you to fall in line, but the thing is that they're doing it for the first time so they are perhaps more unrealistic than other people in the chain. And they're clearly pushy people, as the EA is experiencing.

But if you can't do it, you can't do it. So their choice is to accept it, negotiate with you for something to help their deadline situation with the rent, or walk away. You don't want them to walk away but you can't do anything other than agree with the vendors up chain to help keep them by offering an incentive.

It's unlikely they'll walk away, really.

@Scrunchies I don’t in reality. As I say I expected there would be compromise and not one person calling the shots. As they are at the foot (is that better than the bottom?) they have more flexibility so I was more surprised at their position. Does that describe it better? We were ftb when we bought this place. Everyone is a ftb once.

I’ve now asked the solicitor what the procedure is for helping with costs and not much else I can do. I sympathise they want to move - so do we! It is what it is now, I suppose. And if they pull out maybe we could get back in the chain if we sold quickly.

Sorry to sound defensive but really here for support/advice rather than told I’m being superior - we’ve done everything we can to accommodate our buyer and seller this whole time and only now has the date come up!

Update!

I gave the solicitor/EA information about how you don't need to sign another six-month contract and buyer has agreed to talk to her letting agent. We have talked to EA about how we would potentially help with her rental costs if it comes to that. When he suggested putting the house back on the market, she said no please don't do that.

We found out the panic about the dates was because she wanted two weeks to put carpet down, so nearly broke the whole chain so she could get access on the 12th, then move on the 25th.

Our upper vendor is nearly done (waiting on a land registry query about a garage), so as long as their query doesn't break the whole thing, we should actually be ready to move in early April.

Stamp duty is extended...

Phew... until next time.

We found out the panic about the dates was because she wanted two weeks to put carpet down, so nearly broke the whole chain so she could get access on the 12th, then move on the 25th.

Oh good lord!

I’m glad it’s (probably) sorted. Sounds like naïveté and panic not malice, I suppose. Fingers crossed all goes smoothly and good news for you on stamp duty.

Lot of fuss about nothing.

So good of you to sell to a FTB. I trust they are duly grateful.