Plumbing / drains issue?

[howisyourcat]

I wonder if there are any experts on here!

For the past few months, our house has had a bad smell, emanating mainly from the upstairs bathroom and the kitchen (directly underneath the upstairs bathroom). We can't quite identify the source, ie leaning into the sink doesn't make me think, yes, it's from here.

We've done the usual things ie let taps and shower run for a long while, used some drain clearing products etc. We've also had a plumber in albeit not a very advanced one if that makes sense, basically he did / recommended the same things we had already done.

But the smell is still there. It's worse in the morning so I don't think it's a dead animal or something like that, definitely something to do with the plumbing.

In case relevant, our (attached) neighbours completed the rebuild of their house last year, they also removed a number of trees from their garden and their garden subsequently flooded, although they've now pumped the water out. But the smell is not outside, it's in our house.

Grateful for any thoughts! We'd happily pay for another company to come in but I think they'd need to be some sort of specialists..

I can't help but @PigletJohn might be able to.

in the corner of your bathroom, is there a boxed-in duct, that the soil pipe from the WC goes into?

does this duct continue into the corner of the kitchen below?

when you go into the loft, do you see the soil pipe in that corner?

is this an addition or remodelled bathroom since the house was built?

is there a manhole cover close to the house?

Thanks @PigletJohn

There is a boxed (tiled) corner on the floor next to the loo, I'm not sure if there would be a duct in there. It is right above the kitchen.

This bathroom would have been remodelled, or possibly created, by the previous owners in around 2010 when the house was extended. We ourselves did the loft about two years ago but I'm not sure if the pipe goes up there as directly above this bathroom is uncovered eaves space crammed full of stuff..

There have been numerous problems with the house in the 10 years we have lived here, largely to do with the previous owners having "done up" the house cheaply. Issues such as the wall behind the kitchen units not seeming to go all the way down to the floor

And thanks @pinkearedcow for tagging the expert!!

have a look at the roof from outside and see if the soil pipe sticks out of the roof (this is preferred, since the open top will allow odours and gases to escape, or air to be drawn in).

I have a feeling that the pipe will be sawn off and hidden in the duct, and odours are escaping from it. Probably it originally had a Durgo or similar valve which is supposed to prevent odours escaping (until it jams).

Looking in the loft will also show you if the pipe is present, and if it is open.

No expert here, but we had a smell (we initially thought it was a gas leak, even call british gas about it!!). Turned out it was a blocked drain, that eventually started causing issues with the shower/toilet. We had to get Thames Water out to unblock it. Turns out that something in our showered wasn't fitted correctly which allowed the odour to make it back into the house. (Sorry for the lack of expertise!)

Thank you both.

I will definitely have a look in the loft properly when I get the chance. Looking at the outside of the building, there is a pipe sticking out at loft level with some steam coming out of it?! No idea what that is!

is it directly above the corner where the duct is?

does it stop when you turn off the bathroom fan?

or the boiler?

where is the nearest manhole?

Sorry for the delayed reply.

I think the pipe coming out from the loft is a red herring as that must be the boiler.

Here is a manhole by the side of the house but I wonder if there's another one under our decking, nothing would surprise me re previous owners...

Maybe the drains just need a good clearing but it's odd that we haven't had any blockage issues, just the smell..

drains don't smell much if water is flowing freely down them, it's mostly bathwater/washing up water/washing machine water and tends to wash them out. They are more likely to smell if there is an accumulation. Looking in the manhole may be informative, while someone runs a bathtap and flushes a WC.

If you can't see a soil pipe coming through the bathroom ceiling into the loft, where that duct is, it's quite likely the odours are coming from a durgo or similar.

It's annoying that if it's been boxed in and tiled over, you may have to break it to find out. There is a slim chance there may be removable screws.

So some drain experts came yesterday afternoon because I'd just had enough.

They put a camera through the manhole by the side of the house, said there was a bit of "buildup" and they gave it "a good jet". They said here was no sign of a broken drain or anything like that..

However this morning the smell is still there. Can it take a while to clear?

Having thought about it more I think the blockage, or whatever is causing this, must still be there and going through the manhole by the side of the house meant they just couldn't get to it.

So we are going to have to break up our decking to allow access to this other manhole.. which is kind of fine because I hate it anyway but we weren't really planning for that expenditure right now.

On the soil pipe front, I have now located those and they are coming out of the house at the back, all joining together from the bathroom and loft bathroom, and going down below the decking where this hidden manhole is. So that must be it...

@howisyourcat

So some drain experts came yesterday afternoon because I'd just had enough.

They put a camera through the manhole by the side of the house, said there was a bit of "buildup" and they gave it "a good jet". They said here was no sign of a broken drain or anything like that..

However this morning the smell is still there. Can it take a while to clear?

they might have disturbed something that remains, especially if there are any unused dead-ends of pipe, e.g. from fittings or a downstairs WC that have been removed.

Any progress on the Durgo search?

p.s.

if it's decking, it should be screwed (possibly nailed) together so one or more boards can be lifted for a look without breaking it up.

I can't find the Durgo. Should it look like a little pipe coming out of the roof? I might have to go to the back of our back garden to see.

The decking has screws but it's so old and they're so buried in the wood I think we will struggle. But will give it a go!

a Durgo is usually hidden in the boxed-in duct in the corner of the bathroom.

Some photos of your soil or waste pipes (inside and out) may spark some ideas.

Here they are @PigletJohn

We spoke to the neighbours earlier who said they had the same problem a few months ago and had their manhole (very close to ours) cleared/cleaned then. I wonder if that could be related..

Really appreciate your suggestions!

The neighbours offered we could try and access the issue through their manhole to save our decking.

the big black pipe appears to be the soil pipe, and open at the top, so (unless you have another bathroom not connected to it) there should be no need for a Durgo.

Could there be a leak or blockage in the loft bathroom pipes?

open the manholes and empty a full bath down the drain, see if it flows away quickly and stops when the bath is empty, or is held up by some kind of obstruction. Same with flushing the WCs, one at a time.

take another pic out of the loft window as I can't make it out clearly. The top of the soil pipe is supposed to let odours escape and looks too near the window.

Yes, I think that's what we need to do. Just open it up, do as you suggest with the bath water and see what happens.

I think an issue in the loft is unlikely, we did have a blockage there about two years ago due to badly fitted pipes but had all the pipes fixed / relaid as a result. Also there is rarely a smell in the loft, it is by far the worst in the family bathroom on the first floor.

Could the neighbours have (inadvertently obviously) moved their problem to our side? Do manholes/drains even work like that? It doesn't really matter as either way we will have to fix but I'm just wondering what has caused this.

when you clear a blockage, it can float downstream and reform further down

Also, when there is a blockage, detritis is held up behind it and may settle above the usual level, on ledges, benches or bends.

So yes, sometimes one blockage is followed by another.

Hopefully, watching the flow of a full bath will give some clues. The soil pipes at 4" diameter should accomodate a full bath with great ease.

This is the photo from the loft