Planning has rejected our proposals

[BlackAlys]

Really confused and completely flat. Planning said that they didn't like
any of what we proposed for our planned renovation - knocked us back on everything so we have to reevaluate the whole project.

The existing dwelling has stone to the frontage nearly 160 years old. I love old stone but these are narrow blocks, thick pointing (looks like it's been put on with a trowel) and the colour is like a green moss. Really don't like it. Windows were also going to be changed (to look more traditional ironically) but it means us trying to source stone to make up for the smaller windows. How do we source stone that old?!

Aaahhhh this is only the tip of the iceberg - I could cry. Planning Officer kept saying "I don't like it"

• didn't realise that they could be so subjective in their decision making. Sorry for the rant.

Is the property listed, within a conservation area or any other historical interest/importance?

What advice has your architect given you?

You source old stone from reclamation yards - I'm sure I've seen specialty firms that fo this too.
Did they give you any guidance as to what would be acceptable? You might need a planning advisor.

My parents had this problem and it was an utter nightmare. All the planners kept saying was that they didn’t like the design of the house they wanted to build but with no guidance as to what they did want (permission to build the house not the issue just the design). After several attempts they managed to find an architect who had a good history of having projects approved by their particular council and his first design went straight through! To find the architect my DM asked a planning clerk for the name of an architect that worked often with the council.

Once your have the rejection in writing you can engage with planning consultant to see if there's room for movement.

We tried second guessing and put in a revised design which was also rejected. Alas we can only appeal on the second plan which has two many objections to be winnable we think. And we can't go back to the first, or another variant as it would be substantially the same so they can reject without review.

The existing dwelling has stone to the frontage nearly 160 years old. I love old stone but these are narrow blocks, thick pointing (looks like it's been put on with a trowel)

Surely pointing is put on with a trowel?

I’d go to a local Architect who would be used to applying for permissions. They will be able to advise you on tweaks to your proposals which would meet approval.

We found that with older houses they like the vernacular. If you don't, it will be an uphill struggle.

@changi

We found that with older houses they like the vernacular. If you don't, it will be an uphill struggle.

Either this or the complete opposite. Some planners like ultra modern glass box extensions on traditional properties to provide a contrast.

Property not listed. It's fairly rural and we were told that should it be more urban, our plans would have more of a chance.
We always intended to keep it as traditional looking as possible - while we were going to insulate and render over the old stone, the extension would be build using local quarried stone.

We've had no suggestions from
them - just told to reduce the size of the extension and that if the plans are rejected, then we have chance of appeal.

As yet, they haven't gone before the committee but the Planning Officer has rejected every single change in the proposal and we have 10 days to amend before he officially rejects it.

We are in Wales.

Our architect wants us to comply with as much as possible. The plans include a loft conversion (which they want to reduce the roof
Proposal of) so tomorrow we see whether their reduction will mean that the loft conversion cannot go ahead.

Property not listed. It's fairly rural and we were told that should it be more urban

We are rural and had to go the other way. From painted steel to stone matching the rest of the house.

Don’t have anything useful to add I’m afraid but we have had a terrible time with planning and find them so obstructive and unhelpful. As you say a lot of it is so subjective too which is annoying.

Definitely try and get advice from an architect who has dealt with your planning dept in the past (ours hadn’t - and massively underestimated their pedantic style).

Also if they are recommending for refusal or indeed have refused they should engage with you on what the specific issues are. It sounds like they aren’t being very forthcoming on this. I would request more specifics in writing (it might mean letting the plans get rejected as they have to write a substantive report then). Remember you can always appeal but it’s a long process so frustrating to delay start of a project and Of course no guarantee of success.

I have hated every moment with our planning dept and also Covid has exacerbated issues as they refuse to visit and engage in person.

Thank you. It's incredibly frustrating.
DH had built up a rapport (or so he thought) and had quite a bit of a chat with the planning Officer - our plans haven't even gone 'live' as yet and he's said that the plans are a non starter and we have 10 days to amend before they are rejected.

We thought we were giving back to the property / area by using render and locally quarried stone but no, we are to keep the old stone which I hate abs is flaking and split in lots of areas. Can't really change window shape neither now.

It's so frustrating to see other houses in the area that have been permitted. The road itself is badly in need of rejuvenation - we assumed we were setting a good precedent.

Could cry

Talking directly to planning officer yourself will rarely help the situation. Your architect is experienced in this and will understand where they can push the boundaries of what planning are asking for vs where they have to stick to the letter of their requests.

The application will also likely not be rejected after the 10 days if you are still in a dialogue/process of back and forth. Planning is so often a dialogue, not a simple, submit and gain approval process.

Try and detach yourselves from the process. It isn’t personal, the planners don’t care what you do and don’t like. It is incredibly frustrating but it’ll be worth it in the end.

You say the application isn't live? Do you mean it hasn't yet been validated? If that is the case, the application is still missing information required to make it valid.

You say it's not listed - are there any other designations eg Conservation Area, AONB, National Park etc?

What do your proposals entail? It's unusual for LPAs to have control over things like rendering if there are no special controls.

Does the local planning department offers a pre-application check and feedback service? They do here. There's still a charge but it meant that in our case the actual planning application went straight through without any problems. It was particularly helpful for the roofing we wanted as we were able show photographs of similar roofing used locally.

Pics would help here and knowing the LPA. You could always go the opposite direction, use ultra modern glass as the extension bit, very Grand Designs. It’s weird they didn’t like any aspect at all of the proposal though

op take photos of EVERY house similar to yours with extensions
we had to go to DOE (I think it was) to get permission after being refused & my dh was advised to do this - the DOE inspector comment "Ah yes I remember all those photos" it was passed
When they do a review you can go with them but not submit any further proof - the council planner who also came tried to do exactly that & weren't allowed (I actually queried that they were allowed to do this )
Different system but I think the photos might help prove your case

Rendering the main elevation and changing the window openings is fairly major work that will completely change the look of the house.
External insulation abs render isn't also very good for an old building which needs to breathe. You could be storing up issues in the future.

Does it retain the character of the building?

The roof works- would you be raising the roof to get loft level accommodation?

If it’s not listed, not in AONB and not in a conservation area, quite frankly you could demolish it and start again.

You must look at the policies the planning officer is referring to. You also need an architect that knows the location. If you don’t want the stone and the way it looks, knock it down and build what you do want. Often this is a much better solution than trying to make a sow’s ear into a silk purse. You cannot “save” every building. Get advice.

I don’t get the 10 days comment. Just withdraw the plans and start again with a professional that knows the local plans.

Not local plans! Local planning policies. It’s not a subjective matter. It’s down to interpreting policies.

And: either it’s been referred to the planning committee or it’s being determined by the planning officer. Which is it? If committee there will be an officer report. If officer determination, they alone apply the policies to your application. You pay for pre planning advice. Did you? No planning officer can get chatty with your DH and go against local policy. So you seem to have misunderstood quite a lot.

Thank you - I need time to digest everything that's been written here - and I shall. I really appreciate everyone's input.