Is there nothing I can do about upstairs neighbours and noise from their wooden floors?

[putcarpetdown]

Upstairs neighbours have two small children and wooden floors. We have good relations with them but noise is a killer and after a year of lockdown I can't take any more. The children run, jump, play, drop things, spill their lego bricks, trip around in plastic 'dress up' shoes and it is so amplified in our flat. We have tried to talk to the parents but I don't think they get it.
The lease is no help.
We expect a certain level of noise, of course but it is so loud, sometimes when they jump off steps between various levels in their flat or from the bunkbed ladder (i'm guessing what's happening) it's so loud I start.

I've bought noise cancelling headphones, earplugs etc. They wake us up every morning, running and jumping and dragging chairs in kitchen and the noise continues until bedtime. I've tried to look into what our grounds would be to ask them to put carpet and decent underlay down but it seems it's normal domestic use so there is nothing we can do.
I am not saying the activities are unreasonable but the wooden floors in a un-soundproofed, badly converted old building coupled with the children's activity are! It's so loud but part of the problem is you have to have experienced it to understand how bad it is. It's got to the stage where my heart sinks when they've been out and they come home (which doesn't happen very often in the winter months). Their flat has no outsides space at all and of course young children (around 4 and 6) need to run around.
Anyone had similar and go any advice?! I don't want to fall out with them but I can't take much more. What are our options?

Honestly- I would ask them if they are planning to move soon and if the answer is no I would look at moving yourself.

I can fully understand how loud and annoying this must be and I am not sure any easy solution (like buying them some rugs) would actually help the problem enough to make it ok for you.

Have you tried a white noise machine? We used Lectrofan and stopped us from having to move out of our flat. Think they are available on Amazon - use the deepest level to counter act bass sounds.

Do you rent or own? Can the freeholder help?

Is there anything in the lease about flooring? Some say floors have to be carpeted.

@AuntieDolly

Is there anything in the lease about flooring? Some say floors have to be carpeted.

OP said the lease is no help.

Sadly lease is no help.
I don't want to move, I like it here and it suits us, other than the noise (and children are at secondary school so moving restricted, we can't add to journey and closer to school too expensive).
I do use a white noise generator when i have to focus/read/work with noise cancelling headphones but we are trying to have a normal family life down here and constant white noise not great . . .

I'm not ruling moving out but its expensive and not easy - it's London and we are in a lovely spot with pleasant garden and good location. We'd end up with either less space or worse neighbourhood as we can't add half a million to the mortgage, sadly.

I'll have to win the lottery!

We were once those neighbours. We couldn't afford flooring. Sadly I think you might need to move if you can afford it (we weren't able to move for a while).

Oh it sounds like a nightmare. I was in a room once and the room upstairs didn't have carpet. It sounded like the guy upstairs kept moving furniture around, I found out later it was just an office chair with wheels on but it sounded so loud. I guess if I was very well off I may consider offering to pay for them to have a carpet?

I have found this. Maybe I'll need to take action. Not what I want and certainly wouldn't go down that route without further attempts at reaching a reasonable remedy informally but, really, there should be some sort of protection for people living in flats below crazy hard floors like this.
[https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-sued-neighbour-over-wooden-17374799]]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-sued-neighbour-over-wooden-17374799

If you own, then it's too much to ask to move, I know.

The only thing is to get them in your place to see what the noise is like, they might be surprised and do something about it.

Alternatively try sound proofing from your side.

I sympathise, it must be so hard.

PS I'm willing to help with cost of underlay and carpet, I'm trying really hard to be reasonable (while being sent insane).

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I agree there should be much better regulations around noise full stop.

Thank you for the sympathy and understanding - it does help. Sometimes i wonder if i'm just a horrible person but as some of you have experience of this, you know just how loud seemingly innocuous activities are when amplified by a wooden floor.
We have tried to explain this to them and would love to invite them down to listen to what it is actually like but covid restrictions forbid (the dad was once in the flat when there was a crash and did look startled but of course thought it was a one-off not that we are listening to it constantly and he's a bit flaky). As soon as we can, we will.

Have you looked at sound proofing inside your flat? I wouldn't want carpet with small children - it'd get trashed and ultimately it's their choice. Look at music studios & how they soundproof areas

I would expect that in that case the lease required carpeting. Otherwise there’s no basis for the judge’s decision.

Talk to your neighbours OP. You may find they are thinking of moving anyway (they must be feeling cramped in lockdown). Or that they would be willing to carpet if you cover costs (but that’s not a cheap option).

It sounds horrendous.

Will they be back at school next week?

i've looked into soundproofing ours but it's not effective and is very expensive. studios are soundproofed on the inside or between the walls, not on the outside of the studio. i dream of the dead air of a studio, literally.

i think they are broke - any time there is a joint expenditure there's a whole fuss and heel-dragging from them to the point of tedium as they are joint freeholders so obliged to maintain the property.

I think it is cramped and have genuine sympathy for them in lockdown but it feels like a one-way street. The other day the dad even sent the kids to play in the hallway right outside our door . Moving not been mentioned (see above re broke also schools etc etc).

Every time I have lived in a flat, there has been a clause about carpet in upper floor flats. I moved into one which had lovely waxed floorboards, and I was super quiet, never wore shoes, didn't have kids etc, so my neighbours downstairs were happy - but had I caused a nuisance they could have called in the lease.

please God they're going to school next week (although not sure if younger sibling has started school or not, lost track/mind with lockdown).

i suppose from a legal point of view i'm wondering if normal domestic activity can constitute a nuisance, depending on the flooring. my experience suggests it can although I'd expect to need an expert report on noise levels to back that up. i'm convinced this is a nuisance and there should be tighter regs. it's just miserable and unnecessary - the neighbours decor decisions should not be to my detriment to this extent. That can't be right, it's just not reasonable.

There's a shared freehold? So you have the right to propose a rule about carpets? How many freeholders?

Re playing in the hall outside your door, I had that. I was tolerant at the start of lockdown but no more. Actually the parents seemed embarrassed. I know they're desperate but the kids were damaging the hall too.

From a quick look, it appears councils have powers to deal with loud music etc but cannot do anything about noise from “any reasonable activity”. I expect kids running around would be reasonable activity tbh.

As you’re willing to help on the costs of carpet and underlay, have you tried suggesting this to them?

What are the admissions rules for their school - I wonder if they are waiting for the youngest to get a space and then move further out... (long shot)

Good point about school place although I’d expect sibling rule to apply the primary they’re at is very sought after so may need to be in catchment as well.

I do understand it’s difficult but they just need to meet us half-way.

I don’t understand why you are dismissing the idea of soundproofing yours out of hand.

Yes, it’s a huge job but it can be done and the effectiveness would probably be no worse than carpets.

This is your problem, not theirs but you want them to make all thechanges.