What are the advantages of outside vs outer London?

[Rainboom]

I feel the archetypal draw of leaving London as I age and start to think about secondary schools, but for us it is hard due to jobs tied to London.

I browse through 'Life after London' Facebook posts and wonder if it's all cracked up to be? When I compare the house prices for many places (mostly SE kent Hampshire surrey etc) they are actually not offering that much more value vs outer fringes of London, where you still have the transport/TFL advantage.

When I look at school league tables, greater London has many good schools. Outside, you might have a few but then your are pretty limited in choice.

The house prices in towns 1.5-2 hours away arent cheap either! Many nice places have comparable prices to outer London.

Is it just because I'm limited to commuter land? We could try to get jobs in another city but then one of us would be stuck with no or min wage work.

Anyone share their real experience about moving out of London? Any regrets?

I spent my childhood in zone 6 and my 20s and early 30s in Zone 3 until I moved West with my husband when my DD was born. I continued to work in London, but subsequently we moved further West and I hated spending 3 hours a day commuting so I found a job nearer to home.

I'm now mid 40s with 2 kids, happily living in a large 6 bed house with a big garden and a double garage and plenty of off-street parking, which is worth about £700k. We are catchment for an outstanding Primary and Secondary both an easy walk or bike ride through green pathways from home. We are a 10 min drive or 5 minute bike ride from our town centre. I simply can't imagine I could find a similarly lovely 6 bedroom house in a similarly lovely part of London for 700k.

The regrets are, it isn't as diverse as London, so it can feel a bit provincial. If you love the theatre or fashion or live music or museum exhibitions, then you can't really beat London. I'm pretty excited that the Elizabeth Line will put the centre of London within easy reach (albeit no doubt at a shocking price).

I also do slightly regret moving away from a vast host of job opportunities in London, but my career has taken second place since I had kids anyway. Was this the best choice? So far I think so, but when I'm 50 or 60 I may regret it.

My DP and I both decided, longer term, that the biggest downside was commuting to London daily. I do know couples nearby who both commute to central London, it's definitely easier with older kids who can get to and from school alone. Still, not fun if both parents arent home until 6.30pm every weekday if your kid(s) have got home at 3.45pm.

I cannot see myself wanting to work in London again. When you have adjusted to getting home from work within 20 minutes, a long commute seems like insanity.

To state the obvious "Outside London" is a very large area. I do not live in Kent,.Hampshire or Surrey, so perhaps my experience is significantly different. I would definitely NOT make the move if I couldnt find a much cheaper property near excellent state schools, versus what's on offer in London. The property cost savings of moving out are absolutely key, either because you will pay a lot more to commute OR because you will drop salary to work outside London. Obviously you cannot trade up to a much larger house and garden without paying a price to live near good schools and a town centre/station. But assuming you are not comparing apples with pears, it doesn't make sense to pay the same amount to live in the outer commuter belt. Low crime, green space, low pollution isn't worth that much.

Thanks Sillyoldmummy.
6 bedroom wow, yes you definitely cant find for 700k in London! You can find a 3-4 bed. Did you like your part of zone 6 London growing up?

Thanks for sharing your experience, job opportunities is a big part, and I dont want to give it up, but equally I'm not in a profession (eg teaching nurse) where you can go anywhere in UK and still do it.

I guess I'm thinking home counties commuter towns. Looking on rightmove I see very little property cost savings.

The house price differences between greater London & commuter towns can still be significant IME - obviously within walking distance of the station in the popular hotspots (Guildford, Hertford, Sevenoaks etc) it's less so. For a lot of greater London the transport options into the centre actually seem worse than outside the M25.

On the commuting side - bear in mind that the '5 day commute' is likely going to be a thing of the past for vast swathes of jobs from now on (not all, obviously)
Both parents having a commute of 1.5hrs 5 days week & juggling young children is I think most would agree a pretty terrible existence, but if both are only commuting 2-3 days a week on flexible hours contracts? That allows a lot more compromises you don't immediately think of - distance from station etc - that open up much more areas.

That's sort of the line of thinking we went through. I don't currently work in London but wanted to keep the option to, so I moved somewhere that a 15minute drive & fast train can have me in in a total time of less than 1:30 if needs must.

Property prices in commuter belt areas are high for that reason! Although you might find it is quicker to travel in from further out due to non stop trains. E.g Kingston is on a slow train whilst Basingstoke is a fast one so they used to have similar travel times.

I hate commuting by train so have stayed in zone 2/3 where I can cycle to work.

As my children approach secondary age I am wondering whether to move out because my area really splits into private school vs state. I don't like the closest state secondary.

I live in central Bucks. It’s definitely cheaper here than in Greater London but it depends where you choose! The smaller towns are very attractive and offer countryside on the doorstep. 35 mins on the train into London from where we are. East Hertfordshire is about the same or less. Milton Keynes has very pleasant villages to the east with good access to the station and quick trains into London. Lots of the villages and towns have great character. More than most areas in zone 6. However the best towns are not cheap! But you get a lot of facilities for your money and certainly a community network.

I live in zone 6 South London. For me it's the best of both worlds - close enough to commute easily and fairly cheaply, but it's leafy and has lots of nature. However it's not trendy and we don't have a nice high street nearby.

We also considered Guildford, Winchester etc and surrounding areas, but the houses weren't any cheaper and the trains were MUCH more expensive.

start to think about secondary schools, but for us it is hard due to jobs tied to London.
Not the point of the thread but can I suggest that when your DC start to think about careers then you suggest to them that they don't get jobs that are tied to location.
It wasn't a good idea for miners etc a generation ago when the jobs disappeared; it doesn't seem a god idea now when people are tied to London jobs but can't afford housing.

@sarahb083

We also considered Guildford, Winchester etc and surrounding areas, but the houses weren't any cheaper and the trains were MUCH more expensive.

that's exactly what i'm getting at

i'm not familiar at all with north of river but i just looked up a town in Bucks as pp mentioned it - Chalfont (looks lovely!) and it had similar house prices to Enfield, London borough. OK you get maybe a slice more value, but you certainly have to fork out 800k for a 3/4 bed too

i'm not from UK originally but yes senua, good point

Will certainly encourage DC to go into some proper profession instead of falling into the London corporate trap!

@sarahb083 forgot to ask, where in zone 6 may i ask, for consideration! are there good secondary schools?

@Rollercoaster1920 where are you thinking for secondary?

i'm not sure commuting will totally disappear, tbh. many employers want to look nice (some even really be nice) but this could all be distant nostalgia in a few years

unfortunately as much as we like the rural idyll, urbanisation happens all over the world and jobs do tend to congregate in large cities

I get there's definitely loads of advantages if you have flexibility or opportunity to go further outside, up North, another city... so mainly comparing London fringes and surround

It all depends if you have to commute and how often.

If you do have to commute regularly, the commuter spots outside London which give the speedy commute are always going to be really expensive to live in for a family home, plus the commuter costs can be an awful lot too, especially if for 2.

But as others say, fewer people will commute 5 days a week from now on, so it opens up a wider range of nice, but cheaper places. You can bear a longer commute if it’s only 2 days a week and that means you can get the bigger house. Some of those towns that haven’t been gentrified by the commuters living in them, might find they become more popular.....lovely market towns and villages with good quality housing stock will draw families to them if perhaps they are within a 20 minute drive to the station, rather than needing to be right on the mainline itself for a daily commute.

Of course, if you don’t commute at all, the world is your oyster and you can go anywhere and £700k could buy you a superb quality of life close to good schools.

Chalfonts is South Bucks. It’s not mid Bucks. You need to look further north to get better value. But you still have good access to stations!

And looking south of the M25, once you head beyond the fringes and further down into the southern parts of Surrey and into Sussex, you get better value for money too.

If I leave London it'll be south west or west. That's due to family though. I don't want to get around London to visit family.

There are places in Zone 5, 4 even, that meet your criteria. The SE Boroughs of Bromley and Bexley offer excellent schools, fast train connections to LB, Waterloo, Charing X, very easy to get put to the countryside and coast.

Woodside Avenue, Chislehurst
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-99922133.html

This as an example.

It is incredibly hard to compare outside to outer London beyond the cost of travel into central London.

You can live in a fairly urban or fairly rural area in both. However, having moved 50 mins from central London ( by train and car and not too far outside the M25) we are now in a very rural setting that could not be found in outer London. I wouldn't want to do the commute every day but lots do. The walks and countryside are wonderful with amazing schools too on the doorstep (which is why so many Londoners move here...).

@Rainboom we're near Purley. The local secondary is Riddlesdown, which is excellent. We're really happy with the area.

As someone above mentioned, Bromley and other areas of South/SE London are worth checking out as well

It depends where In London your job is too. I'd love to live out west but to get from Paddington to the City takes extra time vs if you work in CW and live in Essex.

@sarahb083 I eyed up purley! But is it in riddlesdown catchment? I thought you had to be nearer

@janewaysbun true... but i also wonder does job come first or house come first

@grimbelina whereabouts are you if you dont mind? For me personally i like semi rural rather than totally rural.
So yes that's another advantage outside has over outer London, which is quite a suburban spread. Some village bits too.

Bromley and Bexley look nice

@WombatChocolate

And looking south of the M25, once you head beyond the fringes and further down into the southern parts of Surrey and into Sussex, you get better value for money too.

Do you mean like oxted, east grinstead, haywards heath etc? It's still not much cheaper