Is this a complete waste of money?

[Rockettrain]

We bought a house that was a good size and good value for money because it was very dated. Structurally sound, a solid 50s house that had been fairly well maintained but just not kept up to date in terms of decor. Since moving in 4 months ago we have decorated all three bedrooms and the lounge ourselves and laid new carpets in those rooms so we have probably spent about £2k so far plus various bits and bobs on furniture (this house is a lot bigger than our old 2 up 2 down).

There is a lot more that we’d like to do. To summarise:

• knock through kitchen and dining to make larger open plan space. Not load bearing wall so fairly cheap
• new kitchen. Move kitchen to where diner was to enable better flow and so can keep an eye on kids from kitchen to lounge
• knock two smaller reception rooms together to make larger lounge. This is probably the least essential part of our plans but it will really open up the space, at the moment our second reception room has no light coming in. Wall is load bearing so need a small steel.
• new downstairs loo and sink, new floor
• create proper utility area in what is currently a kind of weird corridor but was the original kitchen. Install units, washer and dryer etc to have a proper place for washing and general crap.
• new double doors onto garden. Few other windows replaced throughout where it makes sense to
• remove weird interior porch thing and fit new front door
• knock upstairs loo and bathroom together to make one larger bathroom with toilet, new suite etc.
• random repairs to garage that total about £6k
• redo felt roof on the kitchen/diner extension

I will try to post a pic of the current layout and the proposed plans. For the work listed above we have been quoted £65k inc VAT which includes the bathroom suite and fitting but doesn’t include the actual kitchen units, the utility units, flooring, tiles or decorating. The tiling and laying of the floor and fitting of the kitchen and utility is all included but just not the materials. We will paint and decorate ourselves. So we need to add about £10k on top to cover the extra materials. £75k total.

We bought the house for £390k and think that if it was all done up as per the above plans it would go on the market for maybe £450k but obviously it’s not a guarantee. But I feel like we are spending a LOT of money for no extra floor space at all. It’s all of our savings pretty much. We are south east.

Is this just a really stupid plan?

Current layout

Planned layout. I should mention that I have explored several other options including knocking the kitchen, dining, second reception and utility all together to make an open plan are and was quoted in excess of £100k... this seems to be the cheapest option. Could save money by:

• not knocking through the two reception rooms
• not moving the kitchen to the other side
• leaving the weird interior porch thing even though it makes the hallway small and dark
• putting off garage repairs but they will need to be done eventually

If it were me I'd knock the kitchen and dining room together and have the middle reception room as a playroom instead. Then retain the front room as a sitting room without toys.

Oh should also mention that we had originally planned to block up the door from the hallway to utility but if we do that then you have no option but to go through the lounge to get to the kitchen. We will probably do that most of the time anyway (will keep utility door closed, paint it all white so the door doesn’t stand out too much, and probably keep the buggy in front of the door) BUT thought we should keep the actual door so that we have the option to have someone stay over in the lounge if needed. We don’t have a spare room so it’s the only way anyone could ever stay without us having to traipse through their ‘bedroom’

@lojojomo that’s basically what it is now to be honest! But the playroom is very dark as there’s no windows in there (semi detached and wall on the right is the adjoining wall). The layout of the lounge - which isn’t really clear from my crappy drawings - means that it’s really awkward to fit in the sofas and tv.

what price are similar properties in the same area?

Why would you spend all that money just to sell it? Or was that the plan? Do you not want to live in it?

I'd keep the weird porch. I'd so like to be able to close an internal door to the house when I open the front door - keep the heat in, keep the dog contained, have somewhere to leave shoes & coats & leads.

When we bought our house (2011) we did consider buying somewhere cheaper that needed work or buying a house that needed nothing but was more money

After watching Property Ladder and Grand Designs for the last twenty years I knew that I didn't want to go down the route of living in the house and having to do loads of work at the same time

Just be careful that you don't go above your streets ceiling price

Well it depends doesn't it. Do you intend to live in and enjoy it?

There's this weird thing when spending money on houses that isn't there when buying a car, a tv or a new dress. I get that the actual bricks and mortar need to be worth roughly what the outstanding mortgage is (at least) but surely things like a new kitchen or garden landscaping is akin to a new dining table or a holiday in that you just enjoy the experience of having them.

@Veuvestar we aren’t planning to sell it, sorry if that was confusing. I meant that if we WERE to put it on the market after doing the work we would probably have added £60k to the value, based on what other similar houses are going for. We plan to live here for the next 5 years or so.

@Chasingsquirrels we do have side access and a door at the side to get into the utility, so we could use that door if we were very muddy and to keep boots, coats etc. If we keep the weird internal porch then we will still have to get a new front door and a new internal door anyway as both are in bad condition so I’m not sure how much we will save.

I am not keen on having to walk through the utility to get to the kitchen. It seems like a bit compromise given the outlay. I think you need to consider the sightlines when you walk in the front door.

That seems a bit expensive, we have just done a 55m² 2 story extension on a 1950s semi including everything including building regs planning to new kitchen etc. We have spent not that much over your highest quote.
Also are you sure that wall isn't structural? Our required Rsj's and footings, but then we removed lots of walls as well.
We are also south east but not London.

Agree with lojojomo. That layout sounds much better. You wouldn’t need the steel then and you could also leave the kitchen where it is to save money. But it does sound like you’re getting a lot for what you’re paying.

How many quotes have you had for the work? We have just done an extension and got 4 different quotes and there was quite a variance. The first 2 that came back were a lot higher than I expected and started to get quite worried, fortunately the next 2 were a lot cheaper. What area are you in as that can make a difference too? I think with everyone forced to spend more time at home at the moment more people are doing work to their houses so builders are in high demand so prices have gone up. We have just completed and although it cost us a lot I am so glad we did it. If you are planning to live in the house for the foreseeable the resale value doesn’t matter so much.

I’d get some quotes, I think it’s possibly on the high side, but I think the overall proposed plan sounds pretty good. It would be good to keep the reception rooms separate but with the light issue I suspect you’re right. Unless there is nothing over the kitchen and you could put in some skylights.

As for the spend - I think if you’re planning to stay then making the house fit for you is perfectly reasonable. It’s ok to spend money on your living space that makes it enjoyable. When we have renovated before we’ve spent roughly half on things that are for bringing the house up to spec/top value, and the rest on things for us. Over a 5 year period we have generally broken even on the spend. So if you’re looking at 5+ years in the house that’s probably ok.

@MarthaWashingtonsFeralTomcat yep exactly, we are willing to spend a bit of money for the value that we get from enjoying living in it. But we don’t want to spend LOADS and then not get any of it back when we eventually sell on. I reckon the difference in value added and money spent is about 15k which I think is probably worth it over 5+ years but it just does also feel like a lot of money...

@evouk that ship has sort of sailed for us I don’t mind having to live in it through the ~10 weeks of work it doesn’t bother me too much. Particularly as I have quite a particular taste anyway and so it’s unlikely that we would have found anywhere I was happy to move into without doing ANY work. Ceiling price for the street is hard to gauge because some people have gone up into the loft etc to get a 4th bedroom but there was a very nice 3 bed that recently went for £475k. However it did have a downstairs shower room rather than toilet and their kitchen dining living area was all open plan and had quite the wow factor.

I would knock the wall down between kitchen and dining room. Then split the middle room between living room and kitchen/diner in 2, back half would be a utility room, front half a bathroom accessed from the hall. Then I’d remove the existing utility room so you have direct access from the front door to the kitchen. Having it at the back in your proposed layout makes it a bit tucked away and awkward to access with bags of heavy shopping etc. Existing utility room could have a bank of long storage cupboards on the left hand walk or you could make a little study area.

Maybe things you’ve thought of before but that layout would work well I think. Plus would mean guests could have privacy if staying in the living room and have a bathroom next door to their room. It would also help with the awkward layout of the living room, giving you a nice full walk to put furniture against.

To answer a few more questions:

• we have had 3 quotes, this is the middle one. Cheapest is from a guy who is a kitchen and bathroom fitter and doesn’t subcontract but has got people who will do the other bits of work for him so we’d have to deal with all the other trades separately, sounds like a nightmare. We just want one contract to do everything rather than chasing plumbers, electricians, plasterers etc.
• I don’t like the kitchen being out of sight of the kids. I really want that to change, otherwise I either have to leave them unsupervised when I’m trying to do jobs or bring them into the kitchen with me. For various reasons the former is not a great option for our family (additional needs etc)

I think if you are financially secure and can basically afford to do it then you should go ahead. 5+ years is a considerable amount of time to be living somewhere and you seem quite confident about the increased value. If the costs remain as quoted and the value increase expected then you'd effectively be spending about £15k . Seems worth to me in terms of how much better the layout/amount if light and overall look will be for you.

@MsLumley one architect did suggest that but I was worried that a) it doesn’t solve the problem of kitchen overlooking living area and b) we end up with a lot of the downstairs being used up with hallway space unless we start moving load bearing walls about which adds to cost even more. But then I don’t know if it’s worth it to be able to access kitchen directly from front door?

I’d leave front room alone. And swop kitchen and dining sides over. And have hallway running from front to back creating long view. Hide washer and dryer in cupboards in utility part of hallway. But I like hallways that run whole way ! I wouldn’t want the kitchen next to the second reception because I wouldn’t want to see it if I was trying to relax ...

Would you have space in your kitchen/diner for a TV and small sofa so it could be a play area for the kids, instead of them using the lounge? Then you could keep an eye on them during the day in there and you’d have a nice tidy living room to escape to in the evening?

I know what you mean about ‘dead’ hallway space but you could put it to good use (buggy storage etc).

There's this weird thing when spending money on houses that isn't there when buying a car, a tv or a new dress. I get that the actual bricks and mortar need to be worth roughly what the outstanding mortgage is (at least) but surely things like a new kitchen or garden landscaping is akin to a new dining table or a holiday in that you just enjoy the experience of having them.

Same, I have always done my houses to what I want/like. What's the point otherwise?

How about this? Ignore the scribble in the hall.