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Original poster

Stalling seller - WWYD?

32 replies

Mumof2bears · 06/02/2021 12:13

We're planning to buy a house in an adjacent village to let out, and all our queries and searches were finalised in early January so we've offered the seller ('the Smiths') exchange and completion dates on several occasions. The only response their solicitor has given is that they still have outstanding queries regarding the house they are buying. That is the top of the chain. Their queries have presumably been outstanding from December or earlier, and we're conscious that the stamp duty holiday ends in 7 weeks. The Smiths know that we're buying the house to let out, and are therefore aware of this deadline.
Would it be reasonable for us to ask them (politely, through their solicitor) if they would consider moving into a rental if we cannot complete the purchase by Friday 26 February? Or what else could we say to get things moving? Our solicitor has been pretty good at keeping us in the loop but theirs hasn't been very good at sending paperwork through etc.

OP posts:
PowerslidePanda · 06/02/2021 12:52

Why 26 Feb?

It would be reasonable to ask them to move into a rental to ensure that your purchase goes through in time for the stamp duty deadline. Less reasonable to ask them to meet a sooner, arbitrary deadline. You presumably knew that the house wasn't chain free when you offered on it.

Original poster
Mumof2bears · 06/02/2021 13:22

I'm just concerned that leaving completion 'til March is cutting it a bit fine, so to speak, when it comes to the solicitor paying the stamp duty. Plus the Smiths had indicated that they were keen to get on with the sale moving, earlier in the process. I just want them to put some pressure on their solicitor really!

OP posts:
VinylDetective · 06/02/2021 13:27

I'm just concerned that leaving completion 'til March is cutting it a bit fine, so to speak, when it comes to the solicitor paying the stamp duty.

Why do you think that? The deadline is 31 March. If you complete at 11.59pm on 31 March you don’t pay stamp duty.

Beetle76 · 06/02/2021 23:24

But if you are buying the house to let it out, why wouldn’t they just finalise the sale to you and then rent it back from you until their purchase is sorted out? (Unless they are planning to back out if they don’t manage to get their ducks in a row before the stamp duty holiday ends...)
What am I missing here?

mountains76 · 07/02/2021 09:57

May I ask why you are purchasing a buy to let at the moment? I assume you’re aware of section 24 rule changes etc? I ask as most landlords are running for the exits right now

LOTM · 07/02/2021 10:04

@Beetle76

But if you are buying the house to let it out, why wouldn’t they just finalise the sale to you and then rent it back from you until their purchase is sorted out? (Unless they are planning to back out if they don’t manage to get their ducks in a row before the stamp duty holiday ends...) What am I missing here?
I like this.
Original poster
Mumof2bears · 07/02/2021 10:33

@Beetle76 The house is being bought with vacant possession, as is standard, although we could ask our solicitor whether a fixed term rental to the buyers would be practical. From what I've read, though, this doesn't seem to be very popular? Have any Mumsnetters had any bad experiences when they've done this?

@mountains76 We're aware of the section 24 tax changes, but the mortgage only represents 25% of the purchase price so fortunately it won't affect us too much.

OP posts:
theemmadilemma · 07/02/2021 10:35

We asked about renting from our buyer for a while. I was told this isn't allowed.

Candleabra · 07/02/2021 10:37

You wouldn't be unreasonable to ask, but don't be surprised if they say no. The SD deadline is 31st march. I really wouldn't start throwing arbitrary deadline dates at them as a first request. Maybe start by seeking assurances that they're working towards 31st march?

Fleurty · 07/02/2021 10:45

@theemmadilemma

We asked about renting from our buyer for a while. I was told this isn't allowed.
On a residential mortgage it wouldn't be allowed but the OP is buying on a BTL mortgage where the whole point is to rent it out
Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 10:54

We have almost the same problem, Mumof, we completed our house sale in early January and have been in rented accommodation for over a month now.
The tosser person at the top of our chain informed everyone that they were 'in no hurry to move' out of the blue about a week and a half ago.
Up to then we were looking at completion around now.
They then proposed a completion date of May 10 so we, our seller and their seller will all have to pay ££££/£££££ more in stamp duty!
No one in the chain above us is willing to move into a rental for six weeks or so but of course they're all fine with us paying for over 4 months rent even though we thought it was be 4-5 weeks at most.
We've had enough of doing all the heavy lifting and have said that we are going to pull out of the purchase unless we complete by March 31.
We will have to look for another house costing c.£20,000 to take account of the higher stamp duty.

Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 10:55

....costing £20,000 less....

Candleabra · 07/02/2021 10:58

@tartyflette are you going to see if the stamp duty deadline gets extended?
Isn't everyone else in the chain pushing for a pre 31st march completion?

Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 11:01

The person at the top of the chain is apparently fine with waiting until May. I wonder if they are buying a new property and have a SD deal with the builder. So they don't care. 😠😠

Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 11:05

The trouble with waiting to see if the stamp duty holiday is extended is that it's quite a big gamble.
Rishi may announce something on March 3 (budget day) Or not. Even if he does we are still in the hole for the extra rental (and storage) costs.

tinselvestsparklepants · 07/02/2021 11:05

We are in a similar position to tartyflette but our seller has said they will complete on March 31. We'd prefer a few days earlier though, as there is too much that could go wrong - surely 31st will be a horrifically busy day. Our seller is digging in their heels and we are so nervous - £14k difference for us!

Candleabra · 07/02/2021 11:10

How long is the chain above you? That's really bad of the top of the chain, I bet everyone is mad. I'd be surprised if it was a new build as they put some serious pressure on the purchasers to exchange with 10% deposit within 6 weeks of reserving. Maybe they're not buying anywhere else so the stamp duty doesn't matter. Is there really no pressure from the rest of the chain above you though?

Candleabra · 07/02/2021 11:11

@Tartyflette

The trouble with waiting to see if the stamp duty holiday is extended is that it's quite a big gamble. Rishi may announce something on March 3 (budget day) Or not. Even if he does we are still in the hole for the extra rental (and storage) costs.
Agreed, it's a massive gamble I meant do you still want the house if you have to pay SD or will you withdraw your offer?
Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 11:20

We wonder if the person at the top of the chain is completing on his purchase in the way Candleabra suggests but perhaps the property they are buying will not be finished/ready until May sometime so they are holding back and not completing on their sale.
We do know that they are mortgage free, as are we, but don't know about the two intervening parties in the chain.
We don't know about upward pressure from other parties although the people we are buying from are seriously concerned. Our solicitor has written to them to state our intentions. We are starting to house-hunt again.

Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 11:23

We will have to withdraw our offer if we have to pay standard stamp duty rates, the house we have offered on was at the very top of our budget (and a bit more besides!)
So it's not do-able.

Candleabra · 07/02/2021 11:26

@Tartyflette

We will have to withdraw our offer if we have to pay standard stamp duty rates, the house we have offered on was at the very top of our budget (and a bit more besides!) So it's not do-able.
Sorry to hear that. I just don't understand what people are thinking though when they piss off the chain underneath. Surely they understand that of you pull out, the whole chain fails, including their own purchase. I wish you luck and fingers crossed Rishi has some good news for you on 3rd march.
Original poster
Mumof2bears · 07/02/2021 12:34

I'm sorry to hear about your chain, @Tartyflette, that's such a rubbish attitude for the seller at the top of the chain to take.

Thank you for the comments so far, I agree that my suggested date might seem arbitrary, so am now considering going back to the solicitor tomorrow and offer a completion date of 12 March (so just over a month from tomorrow) or earlier if the sellers can manage an earlier date. If they think they won't be able to complete the purchase of their new property by then, would they consider moving into a rental so that our purchase can still go through. Does that seem more reasonable?

OP posts:
KevinSausage · 07/02/2021 12:37

Tartyflette, can't you say that on 31st March your offer reduces to x? (Current offer - stamp duty) rather than walking away altogether?

Candleabra · 07/02/2021 12:46

@KevinSausage

Tartyflette, can't you say that on 31st March your offer reduces to x? (Current offer - stamp duty) rather than walking away altogether?
That's a good idea. If everyone up the chain does that the net effect will be zero (except for the top of the chain, who are being difficult anyway)
Tartyflette · 07/02/2021 13:30

Yes, we could give it a try!