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Property/DIY

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Original poster

small house or a large flat - help me decide

87 replies

colabottles21 · 04/02/2021 01:17

Have just sold our house during the lockdown and are contemplating our next move. DH got a job in London and will have to be onsite three days a week so the plan is to move there. The only snag is that on our budget we can really only afford a very small house in an ok-ish area or a big flat in a really nice one. Have only one DS so schools are important as is the general feel of the area. Would it really be too weird for our next move to be a flat? Or do we have to settle for a much smaller house in a less nice area? London prices are crazy and I didn't think that we'd be contemplating this in our 40s but the new job is great and it would be too much of an opportunity to miss it. But having never lived in London we just don't seem to have as much equity as everyone else here.

Has anyone successfully lived in a flat with DCs? Did you end up moving to a house after all? Was it weird to be living in a flat if everyone else had a house? Am clearly overthinking this and am just trying to sort out what I think and what is feasible.

OP posts:

ZippedyDooDa · 04/02/2021 01:22

We've had so many nightmares with leasehold / share of leasehold issues that I would do everything in my power to always buy freehold if i could.

safariboot · 04/02/2021 01:25

If you're buying, house, freehold. Flats are a horror show right now with the fire safety issues, people are already being forced into bankruptcy.

Flat is fine if you're renting.

theonlywayisup33 · 04/02/2021 01:29

Definitely buy a smaller house. You do not want the hassle of a flat - noise from upstairs/ downstairs/ next door too.
There can potentially be issues with work being done on common parts.
Also leasehold stuff is a nightmare if you do not have a lease over 150 years - thinking of trying to sell it later down the line.
Yes banks will lend to 80 year leases etc, however, in practise, unless you are in central London, buyers are less happy with leases with no freehold. Even then, you have to deal with managing agents who can be good or bad.

kittenpeak · 04/02/2021 01:33

For heavens sake do NOT buy a flat. Absolute disaster. Buy a house (so long as it’s freehold - unlikely to be a leasehold house in London as not many new estates).

Even if the house you find is smaller than flats out there / more expensive than flats out there you should still do it.

A house all the way.

CatAndHisKit · 04/02/2021 01:34

NOt sure who's 'veryone else', OP ! Do you mean your friends / family out of London?
In London it's the normal thing to live in a flat with DC, most people do unless you aer talking suburbs further out.
You can go for a ground floor or ground + lower ground maisonette maybe with a garden. Obviously that's more expensive but a better investment.

If you can afford much better area for a large flat, go for it - but check what the management co is like, or if it's share of freehold, make sure not many flats share it (could even be just two-three in a building). When it comes to repairs, it's imoprtant to haev decent neighbours so there's no issue with chipping in. Ask to see pervous repairs log, or maybe the owners will reassure you on that.

Also London flats (esp period conversions) tend to be a lot more impressive than many other places - high ceilings, sometimes huge rooms, there is a lot of choice!

Or if you like modern blocks, they'd be leasehold and possibly higher charges but tend to be better organised (make sure no cladding involved). I'd avoid anything with a lift as charges would be sky high.

CatAndHisKit · 04/02/2021 01:40

There is no fire safety / cladding issues with period conversions.
Also OP says it's not just the size she'd have to compromise on, but with a flat she can afford a much nicer area - so in this case, a low-rise o conversion flat is best.

If it was just the size, I'd say house, but aera is very important (and size is a bonus). I lived in (nice) flats there for years and most people I know live in flats (all ages and peoople with money) but they aer in nice areas. Area is everything in London as it's so spread out.

AintOverUntilTheCatLadySings · 04/02/2021 01:41

If you haven't already… Look along the crossrail route - you might be able to afford a larger property that seems further out, but actually would have a shorter commute. South east London is particularly good value

Original poster

colabottles21 · 04/02/2021 01:54

Oh wow so much feedback already. thank you. Lots of food for thought. To be honest, we have lived in flats since we were both students so it kind of feels like a bit of a backward step. On the other hand, I just cant imagine DH and DS managing in small two up two down sort of a place. London just feels like a different planet.

OP posts:

Original poster

colabottles21 · 04/02/2021 01:54

havent live in flats

OP posts:

CuppaZa · 04/02/2021 01:56

Even in London where it’s common to live in a flat, I’d always go for the smaller house.

CatAndHisKit · 04/02/2021 02:16

OP exactly my point - it's a different planet in terns of flat vs house to the rest of the country!
Good, large flats in nice areas are the norm for many people who are on good salaries (and even some rich people, though mostly retired or couples with no kids who do'nt want to deal with house security/maintenance) - but do buy a garden flat if you decide to go for it.

butterry · 04/02/2021 02:36

I live in a London flat which has 3 floors and 5 flats total. We have 150sqm, nicely proportioned rooms with en-suites and generous hallways. I much prefer this to a 4 bed house with the same floor space but pokey rooms. We are on the ground floor and have a small garden though. We have never had any problems with the other neighbours.

Sparrowfeeder · 04/02/2021 02:45

Always freehold!

Also, pertinent right now - the market is saturated with so many flats out there being built in new blocks that should the property market fall - their value will plummet. Period conversions included. Houses apparently hold their value more.

wirldsgonemad · 04/02/2021 03:25

Why don't you rent a flat in the nice area and buy when the recession kicks in and prices fall?

Wishingwell75 · 04/02/2021 04:04

From personal experience I would always go for a better location over everything. Unless you can find a house in an up and coming area ( not using the G word). Only you know what "better location" looks like for your family but for me it would be obvious things like transport, schools, amenities and just the right feel. If at all possible rent for a bit or at least visit prospective area's at different times of day and night - obviously when lockdown is lifted, it's hard to get a true sense of anywhere right now. It wouldn't bother me to live in an apartment/flat over a house, it's pretty common in large cities. Alternatively, is there a possibility of DH commuting for three days a week, then you might be more likely to find a house in a good area. Having said that, it will be really exciting to live in London!

MinnieMountain · 04/02/2021 07:08

Can you give your budget OP? There are plenty of Londoners on here who would be able to help you find a house.

1990s · 04/02/2021 07:16

Ah Mumsnet not always a great representation of the real world...

There are things to be aware of with flats OP that have been highlighted by the posters shouting “never ever buy a flat” but as long as you take them into consideration I don’t know why you’d opt for a place to live that is small and in a worse area, particularly considering schools, when you don’t need to.

read about leasehold and understand what you’re looking for with lease length
cladding - so unlikely that you’d physically be able to buy anywhere with cladding issues at the moment as they all have to have certificates, which is the problem for current owners

Lots of people, with children or without live in flats in London (and all other world cities!) I don’t understand the prejudice against them.

Neighbour noise is just as likely to be bad in a tiny terrace as in a flat.

It might be good if you post the areas you’re thinking about for flat and the ones that you’d have to go to for house, and then people can advise better as it may make a big difference.

Persipan · 04/02/2021 07:30

Mumsnet does tend to be very anti-flat, (and, indeed, anti-anything-that-isn't-a-detached-house-and-it-must-must-must-have-a-downstairs-loo) which doesn't necessarily translate well or helpfully to a property market like London. Personally, I really value space and would be very reluctant to move to a small property anyway, and the better area would also be significant.

I would, in your circumstance, be open to the idea of a flat, but I'd want to take into account things like the tenure situation (ideally I'd want a very long lease, and preferably a share of the freehold; I would be worried by any absent freeholder situation), service and maintenance charges, and practicalities like storage, access, and outside space.

Chunkymenrock · 04/02/2021 07:32

Location, location, location. Go for the best location. Flats can be great, but you need to know how much the maintenance fees are, ground rent, who the management committee are and what was identified needing work at their last meeting and how much of a reserve fund they have for major/unforseen work. How often are communal areas cleaned, are you able to hang washing in the garden, are you able to store bikes outside etc etc. I think renting first to get a feel for things is a great idea though.

Solasum · 04/02/2021 07:36

We live in a flat and have no noise from
Neighbours at all. Noise is more likely in a conversion rather than purpose built.

What you buy now doesn’t have to be a forever home. A centralish London flat will give your son a lot of freedom down the line as he will be able to get around independently.

If it is only three days a week
Commuting you could look at a city along a branch line.

Blue5238 · 04/02/2021 07:41

Mumsnetters outside London insist you must have a house and it must have off-road parking. Just isn't the case for most of us in London!
Where will you / your husband commute to, and what is your budget? It's probably a more complex decision than just flat v house. London prices can vary hugely for e.g 2 properties half a mile apart and even quite significantly by road etc

twoofusburningmatches · 04/02/2021 07:42

How old is your child? Several of my colleagues have found living in flats with no garden and young children during the pandemic very difficult. Those that could afford to have bought a house since.

Are the areas really that different? (I am not anti flats but the way. I think if the flat has a decent garden but bigger, I would seriously consider than over a house)

Quartz2208 · 04/02/2021 07:43

Without knowing budget and the location of his work it is difficult to guide
Commuting is v common in London. In normal times train and underground routes are good and utilised often. Where I live (Surrey/South London commuter belt) most go into london

MiniMaxi · 04/02/2021 07:53

Either could be good in London OP, but I would advise looking for somewhere with a garden especially as you have a kid - we recently moved out of a flat without garden and it was a bit of a nightmare during lockdowns and Covid in general. Obviously this situation won’t last forever but it could be a while.

If you have no option for a garden, try to make sure you are near a nice park.

Depending on budget and where your husband needs to commute to, it could be worth looking at the mansion block flats in places like West Hampstead or Maida Vale - they can be quite spacious and often have a big communal garden to share with other flats in the building.

As PPs have said, cladding is only an issue on buildings with cladding! There are loads of period conversions in London.

Or have a look at the commuter line that goes into the station near your husband’s work. You could get a lot more for your money in the suburbs or even a different town in Herts / Essex / Kent / etc. (Lots of people live 30-60 mins away on the train)

CodenameVillanelle · 04/02/2021 07:53

I've just put an offer in on a large 3 bed flat with garden and garage. My budget could only get me a nasty house and I have no money to do up or something absolutely minuscule. This one is share of freehold whatever that means and is one floor of a detached house with one other flat on the other floor.
I really wanted a house but when your budget is tight the actual living space felt more important.

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