Buying house-extension doesn't have certificates

[NoToast]

I'm close to exchange and the solicitor has finally been pressured into handing over all the paperwork. For months he's sat on a property information form that needed correcting.

The house I'm buying has a single storey extension of unclear age but modern. It's a substantial part of the footprint of the house and has a kitchen, bathroom and extra living space.

There's no planning permission or building regs for it. It was built before 2007 and in place when the vendor bought it a few years ago. I'm concerned it would invalidate house insurance if I bought. There's also the problem if I come to resell and it becomes an issue devaluing the house. We might also want to build a second storey in the future and this is all going to come to light with the planners/building control.

I love the house. I feel gutted for the vendors as it looks like they've been let down by their original solicitor when they bought as this wasn't raised then and resolved. I understand I could get a regularisation certificate but that building inspectors might insist on exposing parts of the building and it won't necessarily pass.

If you've been in this situation or have any advice, I'd love to hear it.

I had a offer on a Victorian house that had a retaining wall removed. There was no planning permission or building regs so we ran a mile on the advice of the surveyor.

We did try to get the cost off putting a risk in retrospectively or for them to prove there was one in place. They declined and put it back on the market reduced by 20k.

I had a gut feeling it was about to collapse. Who does major work without protecting it with building regs? People with extremely bad judgement so you can bet some part of it is cowboy territory

We bought a house with no building regs on the loft conversion (no structural changes to roof so unlikely to collapse, but was sold as 3 beds and useful loft space instead of calling the loft master bedroom with ensuite). The sellers had to get some sort of indemnity, which would have covered us in the event it had been a problem.

If it's been there since 2007 then planning is irrelevant, as they can't enforce after that length of time. Building regs are more of an issue, but if you did decide to go 2 storey on a 1 storey extension you might need deeper foundations and structural requirements, so it might not make any difference what had been signed off originally.

Can the sellers get some sort of indemnity? I think this would be your first option before considering pulling out.

Thanks for response Lego, hope you found something better. Good job you had a decent survey and advice.

Good point about cowboys and bad judgement. I suppose some people are naive too and get ripped off.

Best username Autocatrectal thanks for the reply. Those are good points about needing structural changes anyway and it being out of planning enforcement.

I think an indemnity might be part of the solution. Reading around on the internet I understand these protect against costs with local authority action but there could still be issues with insurance and resale. The extension is around 30% of total floorspace, it's a big part of what I'm buying and what any subsequent buyer would be shelling out for.

I would speak to your solicitor about indemnity insurance with the seller paying.

Yes we did in the end find somewhere else. It was a pain to loose our costs but it potentially could have been lethal.i gave up on Victorian house and got something more modern.

With regards to @DamnYouAutoCatRectal I have extended a house where even the one story part had to have 2.5 m foundations in case we decided to go up ( because of trees) and that's all recorded in the sign off. So the next buyer knows what they are getting.

We purchased and later resold a house with an extension and no planning or building regs. It depends on what was required when it was built rather than now. Had no issues.

We are buying a house and although extension has building regs and planning permission it turned out that in the original deeds of the house when the council sold off the house to the private market in the 70s there was a covenent that any alterations to the exterior of the house has to have written permission from the council seperate to planning permission) . Now nobody had ever got this and I doubt the council would come along and enforce it because they gave planning persmission etc but our vendor took out an indemnity policy-
It covers us for any remedial work, cost of tearing down the extension of council takes enforcement action and also covers us for any loss in value of the house as it would go from 4 bed 2 bath with study to 3 bed 1 bath so would be a substantial difference.

Just bear in mind that if you don't have building regs or papers for the extension and you want to build a second storey it could work out really expensive as you won't know if your footings are sufficient to carry the extra weight. You'll have to get in a structural engineer and dig a trial pit to start, and that will cost a couple of thousand at least.

Personally I steer clear of anything without proper paperwork as I have found that if people are too cheap to do things properly and legally then they have usually cut corners on the build too.

I would also be worried that someone has been sitting on the paperwork (or lack of) as they know that the closer you get to exchange and the more invested you get in the purchase, the less likely you will be to drop out.

Most likely you will have to investigate the foundations anyway for the new storey as bukiding regs are constantly changing.
If the current owners have managed to insure it there shouldn't be a problem. I don't recall any insurance agent asking for proof a house met building regs! My house is over 150 years old and probably doesn't meet hardly any - but it's still standing. In fact when I had the building regs guy around for something I was doing i had the ceilings removed in a bedroom and you could see the roof structure. He said it didn't meet current regs, but as I wasn't changing it it was fine as is.

Yes you will need to dig out to expose the existing foundations on each corner of the existing. We had to.

Whether to run depends on the age of the extension. Building regs only came in I think 1980s. I bought one that was extended 1962 onto land they didn't own and without PP. it wasn't a problem really. However, anything built more recently, yes I'd probably run as the in,y reason not to have building regs approval is that it was done with shortcuts etc.

When we had quotes for our extension we had some builders that would only do on condition they could use a private building inspector that they normally work with as the LA one is too finicky. Guess which builders we chose

All building inspectors have to follow the same regulations- its not about being finicky. Most private inspectors are just easier to get hold of and don’t delay the build-don’t imply they are somehow less ‘safe’.

I’m currently building extensions and using a private company for building regs it’s no different to using the council ones except it’s half the price , they will come on the same day you request them ( if needed ) .
The architect I used said he only used them now because the LA were ( his words ) a load of shit. 😀

I sold my parents house, they converted the garage into kitchen, no building regs etc. Buyers had a survey and I paid for an indemnity certificate, went through ok.
The surveyor did flag up the foundations couldn't be seen but the buyer went ahead anyway

Indemnity insurance is what’s needed in these situations I believe
But i think there’s some weird clause that the insurance is invalidated if you contact the LA about the extension? But could be wrong. But if I’m right that could be tricky if you want to go up.

I would also say don’t pin your hopes on being able to build a second storey as there’s a good chance the foundations aren’t suitable for that. Also obviously planning wouldn’t be guaranteed

Thanks everyone for replying, it's really appreciated.

I think in order of concern I would rank it as insurance, resale, structure and lastly extending as that might never be affordable. I appreciate posters that gave me heads up on potential issues, foundations etc around extension.

Pipandmum I think you're right that it wouldn't be an issue getting insurance, I don't think I've answered this question on my current insurance. The worry would be if they investigate and refuse to pay out if there was a major claim. What if there was a fire and my house was burnt out and the neighbours? I suppose the only thing to do is speak to my current insurer who was going to bridge to exchange and completion.

Thanks Brieandchilli and others who mentioned indemnity. Yes, Ruggery I understand I can't get it if I raise any questions with the LA, I don't know if later contact also invalidates it.

Gemma2019 and Cabbageking mentioned age. From reading around, building regs were introduced in 1985 and buildings only have to comply with the regs when they were built. I suspect nobody will know the age of the extension if there's no paperwork. I've been trying to look for old aerial photos and I'll check for maps today.

It's the solicitor that has sat on paperwork Gemma2019 if I'd seen the forms earlier I'd have flagged there was an extension.

I came across a pithy quote, to paraphrase 'before you buy, it's the sellers issue, when you buy it's yours'.

Thanks everyone, apologies for anyone I missed.

Our current property has an extension above the garage that the previous owner had done, they had planning permission but never got final building regs sign off.

We went ahead with the purchase and the seller paid for indemnity insurance although to be honest it's really of little value. The council aren't likely to take action as the extension is 10+ years old now. We've had no issues getting insurance, it's not something that gets asked about.

I didn't cover indemnity policies much. Some internet pages are really dismissive others more positive. Yes, they would cover against costs associated with local authority action. I don't know if having one would resolve any insurance issues and if I try to resell I might still get issues from buyers. I'll ask the solicitor and insurer. It also wouldn't provide any cover against shoddy work which other posters have flagged as a worry.

Thanks again everyone for input, really appreciated.

I’m pretty sure any indemnity policy is forever so our vendor has taken one out, when we sell we wouldn’t need to take out another one as it’s already covered and our buyers would then also be covered.

It's tricky Brieandchilli. I have a covenant indemnity for my current house and I need to check the status- I haven't given it any thought in the last 18 years. My understanding is the indemnity policy for building regs is invalidated if I make the local authority aware of the lack of regs. So if I was going to go to them for planning or for regularisation of consent I would no longer be covered. If buyers went to the local authority before purchase I guess they would also invalidate the indemnity.

But I'm not too worried about the local authority, that's not a deal breaker. It's the insurance situation. Sure, I'll get a policy no problem, but from further reading some policies clearly won't pay out in the event of a claim if the building should have got regs and hasn't. So then it isn't worth the paper it's written on and does that mean the house is effectively uninsured breaking the lenders conditions? I just need to be clear.

I've Google earthed and it's not helped put a date on construction. Argh! I know in my blithe 20s I'd have just gone ahead and said sod it.

Indemnity just covers your legal fees if the council asks you to take it down. They won’t as it’s over 10 years old. They’ve deliberately withheld this information to push you near exchange before being forced to reveal it. That alone would annoy me. You have to ask why a modern extension didn’t bother with regs and it’s quite probable they cut corners on the build and it wouldn’t have met standards. I would put up with a small extension without regs but not one that makes up 30% of the floor plan.

Thanks for your response, Onandoff I've had a couple of sleepless nights on this. Yes, the vendor may have misinterpreted the form and felt they only had to disclose work they had done themselves.

Other explanations are available.

I read quite a few old threads on here about this issue, so will leave an update in case anyone finds it useful.

I had a surveyor look at the extension this week and he confirmed it wasn't built to building regs. It was inadequately heated and insulated with no damp course. If I'd taken it on I could have spent a lot in remedial works without increasing the value or any guarantee of getting retrospective building regs.

My broker confirmed the lender would need to know about this for the sale. My solicitor confirmed the downstairs room shouldn't be marketed as a bedroom.

So I pulled out, it was remarketed immediately, with the extension as a bedroom! It was sold yesterday. I'm gutted, missed stamp duty, out of pocket for solicitors etc and there's nothing on the market at all. We just fall into a weird band where property is either much cheaper, or more expensive so finding anything is going to be hard.

Thanks to everyone for advice.

you did the right thing, with all issues mentioned above and the safety which won't be covered by the indemnity insurance.
like you said, insurers are a nasty bunch, always looking for an excuse not pay.
in my case I made sure any extensions (4) including wall removed were mentioned to my solicitor as they wouldn't know the property.