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Original poster

Should we walk away?

42 replies

SomeonesMum123 · 30/01/2021 00:11

We’re currently in the process of buying a 3 bed flat in london, we put in an offer and had it accepted for a freehold property. After a few weeks our lawyer contacted us and asked if we knew why the property was now a 999 year leasehold instead of the share of freehold we had been promised. This was complete news to us and when questioned the sellers solicitor was very aggressive with ours demanding we move forward. The estate agent had no idea that there had been a change either.

Turns out the seller shares the freehold with his siblings for the whole building and is now claiming he will transfer the freehold to us at a later date, once another flat in the building has sold. We offered to buy the entire freehold for the building but the sellers solicitor rejected that without even speaking to the seller. We then went to the estate agent who took a week to get in touch with the seller, who again on advice from their solicitor has rejected this proposition.

We have now gone back with a revised offer, with a reduced amount up front and a reserved amount that will transfer when we do get the freehold as we have repeatedly been told to “trust the seller” and that we will get the freehold at a later date. We went through the estate agent again with this proposal and he has now emailed us back saying the seller was talking to his lawyer about it. Our solicitor has emailed the sellers solicitor who has sent back a single line “why has there been a reduction in price”.

The solicitor has been rude a number of times in his replies, and basically refused to have any discussions around potential negotiation despite the fact that what we put in an offer for and what we are now looking to purchase are different.

The flat is great and the location works well for us, but are we just dealing with some con men and should we walk away?! There is no chain on either side so this really should have been a quick transaction!

OP posts:

Honeyroar · 30/01/2021 00:16

It sounds dodgy as hell. I think I’d walk away. Surely there are other flats available in London? I know it must be really annoying/disappointing but I’d most certainly not “trust the seller”!!

Outdoorsywithgin · 30/01/2021 00:23

Do NOT "trust the seller".
Personally I would walk away, but if you decide to continue then please make sure you have the freehold promise in writing

lastqueenofscotland · 30/01/2021 00:23

God I’d run a mile.

CatAndHisKit · 30/01/2021 00:33

If they do accept the lower offer, I'd proceed, otherwise not.

Original poster

SomeonesMum123 · 30/01/2021 08:57

Thank you for all of your responses! Our gut feel is that something is not right either, but we’ve heard so many horror stories about the U.K. property market (we’re from Canada but have lived in the U.K. for years, now buying our first property) and the sellers solicitor is INSISTENT that a 999 year lease is the same as a freehold. He even went so far as to copy and paste a quote from another solicitors website which was taken totally out of context in to try and prove his point. We know for certain that it is NOT the same thing, but it seems crazy that a third party (the solicitor) can have such an impact on our sale!! He’s a heinous character

OP posts:

chestnutSquash · 30/01/2021 09:02

Run.

Nightmanagerfan · 30/01/2021 09:03

Sounds completely dodgy. Are you trying to purchase before the stamp duty deadline? I guess you might miss that if you go back to the drawing board.

I wouldn’t want to be in the position they’re suggesting and no solicitor would advise just trusting someone who has shown themselves to be untrustworthy.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Moving is such a stressful time in life.

Piranesio · 30/01/2021 09:03

Absolutely walk away.

It could be that his solicitor is a friend / family member (as it's hard to believe an independent solicitor would act like that), but either way they only have the sellers interest at heart. The only person you can listen to is your own solicitor (that's why it's so important to have a good one and not a crappy conveyencing firm).

Even with a significant price reduction for the leasehold, I'd be unhappy about dealing with the freeholders for stuff, after all you know they're an untrustworthy family. TBF, the same applies if you buy with a share of the freehold. Do you think you work with these people on a day to day basis? I'd be worried they would make your life hell.

TokyoSushi · 30/01/2021 09:07

Oooh no, this is not the flat for you!

Lockdowndramaqueen · 30/01/2021 09:09

Walk away.

BogForLife · 30/01/2021 09:10

A flat with a 999 year lease is a good bet, and huge numbers of leasehold flats are bought, sold and happily occupied.

A share of freehold is great, can be problematic depending on the way it is managed with the other freeholders: how are maintenance costs agreed etc etc.

Lack of clarity and transparency from the vendors: dodgy.

It seems reasonable to offer a reduced sum to reflect the future costs of freehold purchase.

Would you have bought had it been declared leasehold in the first place?

SuperHighway · 30/01/2021 09:15

Do not trust these people. Personally I wouldn't proceed even at a reduced price. They won't sell you the freehold and if owning the freehold is important to you this property is a nonstarter.

PatchworkElmer · 30/01/2021 09:17

Walk away now, you can’t trust them.

CoronaIsWatching · 30/01/2021 09:21

The attitude of the solicitor is typical of people throughout the property industry - a poundland wolf of wall street

Run. Now.

evouk · 30/01/2021 09:26

Run for them there hills

tanstaafl · 30/01/2021 09:32

If you still have your Canadian accent and they know this is your first purchase, then I think their solicitor thinks you can be taken for a ride.

Just disengage and look elsewhere.

Candleabra · 30/01/2021 09:34

Well the solicitor is acting for the seller (who is paying them) so I wouldn't be too sure they're solely responsible.
I also wouldn't trust the seller. About anything now.
Buying a property (unfortunately) relies so much on both parties bring trustworthy. In answer to your question, I would walk away, yes.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 30/01/2021 09:39

Piss off would be my response to a lawyer saying “trust”- if you could trust people we wouldn’t need lawyers!

Clymene · 30/01/2021 09:40

I would walk away. Anyone who changes the parameters of what you thought you were buying mid way through the process can't be trusted

quinquereme · 30/01/2021 09:45

I agree with the others, especially if the freehold is owned by family - suggesting they own other properties in the block - and you will have to deal with them on a regular basis. Yes a leasehold can be just as good - if the freehold is managed well.

Moreover I am not sure now is the time to buy a flat in London unless you are absolutely committed to the area and the flat and it's well within your means. Flats hold their value less well and there is great uncertainty post Covid with what the market will look like.

honest123 · 30/01/2021 11:35

Walk away. This will only be the start of things to come.

HundredMilesAnHour · 30/01/2021 11:49

The sellers and their solicitor sound like a nightmare and I'd steer well clear.

However OP, you need to educate yourself about leaseholds, shares of freehold and freeholds if you're going to buy a flat. You need to understand the differences and the implications. And it seems very clear from your posts (and that of some other posters on this thread) that you don't (yet).

The majority of flats in England are leasehold. Some may also own a share of the freehold but they are still leasehold flats (note: this is important to understand). So they will be listed for sale as a share of freehold but what that means is a leasehold flat that also owns a share of the freehold. The implications of owning a share of the freehold will vary depending on how many flats there are. If it's just 2 flats, it's all relatively nice and simple so buying the entire freehold could be a good idea to give you control over costs and maintenance. However, if there are quite a few flats, it's not realistic to think you can buy the entire freehold. For cost reasons but also for all the work that comes with it. I'm a Board Member for the limited company that owns the freehold of my building (approx 100 flats) as well as being a leaseholder and owning a share of the freehold, and trust me, it's a lot of work!! Even with a managing agent.

Also, you seem very focussed on freehold and less bothered about service charges / sinking funds (although perhaps you just haven't mentioned it rather than not considered them). This is where you really need to focus some attention to understand what you might be getting yourself into when/if you buy.

user1471538283 · 30/01/2021 12:09

Leasehold is not the same as freehold. I would walk away and if you can wait to see what comes up in the spring

Original poster

SomeonesMum123 · 30/01/2021 12:09

Thanks for all of your comments.

We actually do know the difference between a freehold and a leasehold. The building is two flats, a Victorian conversion. Buying the freehold for the property isn’t unheard of, especially as it used to be a single home that had been converted.

At this point, the freeholder/landlord could hold us relatively hostage on a number of things that come with the upkeep of the building (we know this area well, have lived here for a number of years and know the pitfalls of living in a Victorian property). Essentially, not owning share of the freehold takes away any sort of seat at the table we may have. Given the behaviour of the seller at the moment, we think he may have a desire to sell the freehold at a later date and charge us for it, which is why we’ve structured our negotiation as such.

Thanks for all of your help everyone, I think we just wanted to confirm our gut feel that something untoward was happening here. We will be walking away on Monday.

OP posts:

StarsonaString · 30/01/2021 12:14

Run run run.

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