Planning permission front extension suggested refusal- what can I do?

[SenoraSurf]

We submitted planning for a front extension (increase living room size and for a porch) on our 1960s semi.

We have a 25m driveway and the picture attached shows the boundary (it is diagonal towards us) and the proposed extension. It also shows the 45 degree angle which is the rule of thumb to ensure it doesn't impact light etc (it's also adhered to regarding height but I don't have that pic on my phone).

The neighbour paid for a huge 9 page chartered surveyor objection and it was mostly waffle but it blew every little thing it could of out of proportion (as expected I guess- bad relationship with neighbour!!). We feel like we have counter arguments for each point raised in the objection. Our houses are set back from a terrace of Victorian houses so we are overshadowed by them before our extension would have any impact on neighbour.

The planning officer is recommending it for refusal based on it being overbearing to the neighbours downstairs window and they can't suggest any reductions as it wouldn't give us enough space for it to be worth it. They've asked if I want to withdraw the scheme or not.

I really don't have a clue what happens now. We did the plans ourselves (we're pretty savvy DIYers but I'm in unchartered waters now). Any advice please?

The neighbour is a classic example of an elderly person in a house that's going to ruin (garden and drive included), who doesn't like change. They also have a massive amount of bushes and plants in their front garden.

Here's the pic

The chartered surveyor wouldn’t make things up out of thin air so they probably are real concerns. Suggest you use an experienced architect who knows how to get past planning regs and try again. The positive is that the surveyor has listed what the problems are so it’s just going to the architect and asking them to create something that gets around them.

@GrumpyHoonMain they suggested the neighbour enjoys a seating area out the front of their house which doesn't exist. It also stated the front of the 6 culdesac semi's look the same 3 have two storey side extensions and the objectors house had the feature porch knocked down in favour of a rotten wooden flat roof porch. It also suggested an increase in potential for crime our house is the furthest from the public road and due to the boundary angle, can't actually be seen in which to increase crime.

It is a very patronising and aggressive document.

The main thing is it being overbearing- as it doesn't impede the 45 degree rule on either height or depth, is this suffice grounds for appeal? Our ground level is also approximately
1 ft lower as we're on a slight decline- which would also reduce potential for being overbearing.

I am reluctant to pay for an architect when at the minute, it's a case of gathering some more information and deciding how to proceed.

Well the planning officer has agreed with them, so either withdraw and pretend to be reasonable or refuse and force them to reject.

I’m not sure what you’re looking for or why you don’t want to spend money on an architect to do it properly?

It does look like it would be pretty imposing and depending on aspect could prevent a lot of sun on the front of next door, potentially which in turn will create a horrible corner there for any planting.

@Bluntness100 the planning officer has said it's overbearing, which is subjective. They didn't state it was due to a particular objective issue. The only information relating to something being overbearing is the 45 degree rule... which the application adheres to and therefore I don't understand how they can deem the plans overbearing.

There is little point in me paying for an architect at this stage in which to end up in the same position.

@GrumpyHoonMain I forgot the surveyor also included solar data which used an incorrect location of the adjoining owners house, in an obvious bid to inflate the impact on light.

If you’re convinced the surveyor’s lying then try to dispute it

@HardAsSnails I think this is the trouble I'm going to have- on paper alone it could come across as imposing but in reality, the houses are curved around a small valley, ours being at the lowest point and the furtherest back. We're overshadowed by Victorian houses to the right too (it's about 15 metres in front of our house).

The officer has not done a site visit due to covid and the photos I was initially asked to provide i lieu of the site visit, doesn't accurately depict the topography or the other structures around our house.

Front extensions are not always straight forward to get through Planning, which has become apparent on your application.

Put the boot on the other foot. How would you ‘honestly’ feel if your neighbour submitted an application for something similar? Wouldn’t you feel their extension would appear over bearing resulting the potential loss of outlook and daylight?

Your PO has given you the option to withdraw. Some PO’s don’t even offer applicants/agent that choice so in part, that is quite helpful. The other option is you let the application run its course and receive the refusal. I used to advise clients to withdraw but for the money paid along with time spent, you want something from the LPA worthwhile that can be challenged.

With a withdrawal or refusal, you would normally get the option to re-submit a revised scheme free of charge but would go through the formal 8 week process again.

With a withdrawal, you do not get the option to appeal whereas you would with a refusal.

If you’re not willing to compromise, then it sounds like it’s a non-starter. The only ‘possible’ way of this being possible is a joint application with your neighbour. However, it doesn’t sound like that’s an option.

Who drew the plans up for you? Did they advise that it would be fine from a planning perspective? Because front extensions of that nature are rarely straightforward in planning terms.

Tricky one, as it sounds like you really need the planning officer to do a site visit, which as you say isn't going to happen at the moment. Maybe consider withdrawing and reapplying in a few months, making sure you also address each of the neighbours concerns?

You’ll have to be willing to compromise if you would like to find a way forward. A proper architect would be your best route but it sounds as though you’re unwilling to pay for one. It doesn’t matter if you disagree with the neighbour unless you can convince the people who make the decisions, which clearly you can’t.

I assume the council has no info about putting in a dispute?

I'm obvioulsy the only one, but I'm confused by the drawings. Which part is the extension? It looks like a semi in the pic, with the neighbours front porch being part of the main house? Sorry, I cant make it out at all

@DevilDamo that's helpful- thank you. In terms of compromise, we would pursue a bigger porch (bigger than 3m2 permitted), as the whole point in extending is due to my sons disability. The only downside is the porch will end up being directly against our front window, which would like devalue the house. Whereas the front extension would be 1.8m away from the start of the adjoining neighbours front window. So in terms of putting the shoe on the other foot, I still disagree that it's overbearing to the neighbour.

So if it gets refused and then I appeal, can I instruct an architect to prepare the appeal documents? Given that the PO hasn't suggested anything that they would accept, it feels like it would be a stab in the dark. On the planning search history, there aren't any comparable plans to ours (they're all significantly bigger projects or involve wrap around extensions)

@Eleoura

I assume the council has no info about putting in a dispute?

I'm obvioulsy the only one, but I'm confused by the drawings. Which part is the extension? It looks like a semi in the pic, with the neighbours front porch being part of the main house? Sorry, I cant make it out at all

It's a section of the front of the houses. The front wall is in the neighbours porch and extends right across, the extension is the bit on the left bottom

If neighbour is on the right and you are on the left then too right, I'd be objecting. Who wants a wall projecting forward from outside their front window? Shrubs and bushes are generally more attractive and can be pruned. A wall is immovable.

This would be refused where I live too. It's rare for sizeable front extensions to be granted around here anyhow.
I would withdraw and go for a substantial porch on "your" side of the boundary. I know you feel that would impede your view from the existing living room but that in itself is going to add some weight to your neighbour's argument.
Hand on heart, if the neighbour was proposing this extension, would you object?

OP when you put your drawings together, did you go through the planning documents for your local authority? They set out what is generally acceptable for planning applications. There is quite alot of detail in ours and talks about neighbouring properties, being overbearing and says For most properties, (in particular semi-detached and terraced) any other form of front extension other than a porch is unlikely to be acceptable, as it may appear an overly prominent feature within the street scene

I think you're concentrating on the objections your neighbour raised, but irrespective of those, you still have to adhere to planning in your area. If there are no other similar extensions, its indicative of what will/won't be allowed. A local architect that is used to dealing with the local planning authority is your best bet.

[quote SenoraSurf]@DevilDamo that's helpful- thank you. In terms of compromise, we would pursue a bigger porch (bigger than 3m2 permitted), as the whole point in extending is due to my sons disability. The only downside is the porch will end up being directly against our front window, which would like devalue the house. Whereas the front extension would be 1.8m away from the start of the adjoining neighbours front window. So in terms of putting the shoe on the other foot, I still disagree that it's overbearing to the neighbour.

So if it gets refused and then I appeal, can I instruct an architect to prepare the appeal documents? Given that the PO hasn't suggested anything that they would accept, it feels like it would be a stab in the dark. On the planning search history, there aren't any comparable plans to ours (they're all significantly bigger projects or involve wrap around extensions) [/quote]
Sorry, but I just get the feeling you would not be happy if the neighbour was proposing similar to what you are... especially if you can’t see yourself how overbearing the footprint alone would be on the front window/room. There is also no information about your proposed roof design of which flat and pitched roofs both provide quite significant overbearing.

You don’t need an architect to submit the appeal. You can do that yourself. If however you’re wanting something that has a more realistic chance of your appeal being allowed, I’d look to engage a Planning Consultant. Not going to say they’re cheap but can be very much worth it. They could in the outset provide an initial appraisal of the site and development to see if it’s something they consider ‘could’ be approved.

Maybe look to reduce the depth of the extension by 1m and review the roof design so it becomes less overbearing. Use that as your “free go” with the LPA so you potentially have a back up plan.

@NewHouseNewMe in all honesty, I wouldn't. We're not nasty people, we've been really considerate to the neighbour in years gone by but it's all be chucked back in our face.

@Africa2go yes I have followed the guidance from our LA to the letter, which is why I'm frustrated that it's being refused due to something subjective and not something I can adapt/work with.
When we put in for it, we did say we were taking a gamble because of the low success rate of front extension approval. Our house is literally in the most desirable spot to benefit from a front extension hence why It's a shame the neighbour doesn't see that too as a joint front extension would make both houses much more appealing the lounges are quite small. It's a shame.

I'm trying to be realistic and accept the extension across the whole front of the house is going to be more effort than it's worth (especially with another £1.5k on a party wall agreement).

We need the porch for my son and 3m2 isn't big enough. Will I be able to adapt the planning to exclude the lounge bit and just have a porch (would be just over 4m2)

@DevilDamo there are more drawings but they're on my laptop, I only had that section on my phone.
That's a good suggestion about reducing it all by 1m.
Can I alter the dimensions of the proposed extension prior to the decision? Or Would I have to wait until the appeal to put the revised plans forward?

I wouldn't bother appealing that, sorry, waste of time and money, I'd withdraw and as pps said get a local architect with experience of what you'd likely get approved. And be prepared that it might not be worth the expense, relative to what you'd gain. Good luck.

[quote SenoraSurf]@DevilDamo there are more drawings but they're on my laptop, I only had that section on my phone.
That's a good suggestion about reducing it all by 1m.
Can I alter the dimensions of the proposed extension prior to the decision? Or Would I have to wait until the appeal to put the revised plans forward? [/quote]
You would need to speak to the PO to see if they would accept amended drawings during the current determination process or to an agreed extension of time. If they say yes, then great. Otherwise, they say no and you re-submit a revised application once the current one has been withdrawn or refused.

I would fight tooth and nail against a front extension like that next door. Front extensions are generally awful and spoil the look of the street. It will be difficult to get planning permission for it.

@MiddlesexGirl

If neighbour is on the right and you are on the left then too right, I'd be objecting. Who wants a wall projecting forward from outside their front window? Shrubs and bushes are generally more attractive and can be pruned. A wall is immovable.

Me too! This is overbearing and spoils the line of the house, and possibly the street. It’s a semi and they really should be in line at the front.