Nightmare buyers and estate agent

[Thanksforthememory]

We are currently selling my mum in-laws house as she died last year, we've had a few people round but no offers so we reduced to offers over £180.
We've spend £13k doing it up before we put it on the market new kitchen, bathroom, all newly carpeted and blinds so basically inside is like new.
We reduced last Monday and by teatime had our first viewing they offered £170k on Tuesday then upped it to £175k which my husband reluctantly agreed but I said to keep on the market because you never know what may happen.
On Thursday it went sold on Rightmove but being busy didn't have time to query it.
The buyers asked for a second viewing on Friday which I agreed only to find out when they arrived that the woman had brought a family member who was a architect who went round with his clipboard and pen and proceeded to tell me everything that was wrong with the house, while I just sat there in shock, there was nothing he told me that we didn't know anyway as if you walk round outside it's quite obvious to anyone what needs doing.
I told my husband what had happened and I was furious by this time as I thought they were just coming for a second viewing and not to rip the house apart especially when offers over 180 meant just that but with the covid who knows what may happen hence taking the low offer but then to slate the house which to means they are going to be horrendous to deal with as I can see they are wanting it even cheaper as the last house to sell on that road is £20k higher than their offer.
Now we are waiting for then to sort a survey out which doesn't seem to be forthcoming so my husband rung the estate agent and asked to put it back on the market till at least they've had there survey done and was told by agent that it's illegal to have it up for sale when they've signed a contract which I found out this is a complete lie.
I would like to pull the deal and sack the estate agent. What would you do in this situation.
Thanks.

I think with house sales, it's always best to take the emotion it of it. That'd be my first bit of advice.

Aside from the covid risk, I'd say it's fine to bring a knowledgeable family member with you, but it would have been much better if they had agreed that with you in advance.

As for the survey, they only made an offer last week, you're being unrealistic expecting a survey (or valuation) to have already been sorted. Less than a week would be fast in normal times, but during a pandemic and the rush for buyers to complete before the end of the stamp duty holiday, it'll probably take several weeks at least.

In terms of the advice about remaining up for sale, that's very confusing. Your buyers can't have signed a contract (have you even had the letter from your estate agent confirming the sale?) and even if they had, it means nothing until contracts are exchanged which is likely to be a couple of months away. Have you actually instructed solicitors? You can remain on the market if you wish, but the buyer's may well pull out if you do, it's your choice.

You do seem rather angry about the whole thing. If you don't think the buyers are offering enough money, don't accept the offer. You don't have to, you can always hold out for a higher offer. If you do that, it's only fair to tell the buyers before they spend anything progressing their purchase.

Whatever you sell it for will be a nice inheritance. Don’t be greedy. You accepted the offer on Thursday. They were motivated enough to do a second viewing on Friday. Today is Monday. Are you really expecting the survey to have happened already?

The family member was being a prat, but some people think this is what you’re supposed to do at house viewings. The potential buyers were probably as embarrassed as you were incensed.

Don’t throw this potential sale away out of temper and greed.

While it was rude to be quite so frank while you could hear them, the buyers should do exactly as they did. I would definitely take someone with knowledge around. This does not mean they will be a nightmare, or that they want a reduction in price.
Your agent is incorrect as you presumably have not signed a sales contract, but i would give these buyers a chance.

Having not been used to people openly being rude, which he most certainly was I suppose I have taken it personal but I spent a lot time effort and money on trying to get the inside as perfect as I could so yes I do feel a bit put out especially when they've got a good deal. As for the estate agent yes they are for some reason trying to stop other viewings and as they are working for us supposedly then they should be trying to get the best price which they haven't tried to do as they have lied about it being illegal to keep it on the market. I have to disagree about being greedy because why should the family which there is three of them lose out just so the agent can have a quick and easy sale because it's a fixed fee so it doesn't matter to them how much it sells for.

I can see both sides of this. But I agree with you that the estate agents are not behaving reasonably. They should be working for you and have ignored your instructions more than once. As soon as you can change to someone else.

Is this your first house sale OP? All of what you describe is perfectly normal. Buyers try to get the house for the lowest amount of money and can be very thorough with their checks. The property is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of how much you have spent on it. Surveys take several weeks to organise even in non-covid times and it's normal to remove a house from active viewings once you have accepted an offer. As a buyer, I would expect this otherwise it looks like you are not serious about accepting my offer and why then would I spend money on a survey which I would lose if you pull out of the sale because you are still doing viewings for it? To be honest, it is you who sounds like a nightmare seller, not the other way round.

They really haven't done anything wrong
This is a terrible time to sell a house - you've missed out on the stamp duty holiday and people are hunkering down waiting for furlough to end and brexit to play out, plus people aren't as keen to view properties due to covid. Refusing an offer only £5k under your asking seems foolish.
I don't know why you spent £13k doing up a house to sell, you should have just sold as was at a lower price point.
Presumably there is no mortgage to pay off so whatever you sell it for will be unearned income. Try to stop being so emotionally attached to the house.

Have you sold a house before? I think everything you've described is really normal. First viewings are led by the heart - can you imagine this being your future home? Second viewings are led be the head - getting into the detail, what costs might there be? What needs doing? Double checking that your heart didn't lead you to make a silly decision.

Now your buyer has had an offer accepted and is committing financially by booking a survey and engaging a solicitor to start work, if I were them I'd be absolutely furious if the property was still being advertised. It might not be illegal but it's pretty shitty behaviour when you have no good reason to still advertise it. You have barely given them a chance to get a survey booked.

If you weren't happy with £175k you should NOT have accepted it. End of.

What you're suggesting is to muck about a buyer who has done nothing wrong to date. And why on Earth would this make you want to sack the estate agent? You're the one who sounds horrendous to deal with.

I don't see why bringing an architect friend to look around means they're going to be horrendous to deal with, or indeed why it was such a shock to you that they picked up defects which you acknowledge are there. Your only response needed to be ""Yes, and all of that is factored into the low asking price." You haven't said whether they have actually tried to reduce their offer, but if they do you can just tell them no deal.

So far as the EAs are concerned, speak to someone more senior and say you aren't impressed that they lied to you, and that if the house doesn't go back on the market you will be terminating the contract with them.

You have accepted their offer, no decent estate agent will allow you to accept an offer but still take viewings from other people. It is very bad form. If you think you can get more you have to reject the offer. As for bringing an architect round. That is totally normal, but usually the owner has the good sense to make themselves scarce as of course it is going to sting a little to have someone talk about everything they are going to change. This is fine, they haven't done anything wrong and you are putting way way too much emotion into this. I've bought and sold loads of times and as a buyer I'd run a mile from sellers who tried to have further viewings after accepting my offer.

As for the estate agent yes they are for some reason trying to stop other viewings and as they are working for us supposedly then they should be trying to get the best price which they haven't tried to do

The estate agent knows the market - perhaps they think the £175K you've been offered is the best price you're realistically going to get, and they're trying to keep that buyer from walking away? Because I would, if I'd had an offer accepted and was spending money on surveys, but the seller was still actively trying to sell to someone else...

OP you're only £5k down, considering everything going on atm that isn't bad going, it's not like you need to scrape every last penny for your onward purchase, it's inheritance. Stop taking it personally, it's a business transaction, they increased their offer and it's very reasonable to be critical on a second viewing, expect it again after the survey. You're going to make the whole process much more difficult for yourself with this attitude.

I’m also a bit surprised by this, you’re acting like you’re doing them a favour, yet it’s not like anyone else is lining up to throw cash at you.

What they are doing is acceptable. They will offer to pay what the house is worth, if you think it’s worth more withdraw from the sale and take your chances.

If a seller continued to market a property after I had had my offer accepted, I would be withdrawing my offer sharpish. There is enough uncertainty for a buyer in the process that I couldn't stomach the sellers playing silly buggers before the hard stuff even started.

@LooseMooseHoose

If a seller continued to market a property after I had had my offer accepted, I would be withdrawing my offer sharpish. There is enough uncertainty for a buyer in the process that I couldn't stomach the sellers playing silly buggers before the hard stuff even started.

I think anyone who has been through the house buying process would. You’d have to be clueless not to and the agent did the right thing in stopping it.

It says I accept your offer but I’m withdrawing if I can get more and I’m going to actively try to get it. Why would anyone be throwing money at a survey etc when the seller is behaving like this.

You seem angry about what appears to be pretty normal house buying/selling things.

The architect told you everything that was wrong with the house and ripped the house apart? Why was the architect even talking to you? Surely they were there to talk to their family member (FM) to see what FM could do with the house, if what FM envisioned could be a possibility. Were you following them round the house listening to their conversation? If you'd made yourself scarce and not heard what they were saying you might be less angry? What they do or don't want to do to the house once it's theirs is absolutely none of your concern.

Them 'slating the house' is really just them discussing their plans for it and why would that make you think they are going to be horrendous to deal with. They viewed twice in a couple of days last week, the last being Friday, surveys take weeks to organise normally let alone any covid delays, and I would expect surveyors are super busy at the moment trying to work to the stamp duty deadline. YABVU to expect a survey to have been arranged in a day or two.

It is normal for a house to say sold on Rightmove once an offer has been accepted, if you put it back on the market your buyer will think you are not being serious and mucking them about, you risk them pulling out.

If you hadn't done the 2nd viewing yourself and the agent had done it instead, you wouldn't have heard any if the buyers/architects comments, do you think you would be as angry/furious as you seem to be?

The estate agent telling you it's illegal etc is out of order. You're buyer has done nothing wrong and you seem pretty unreasonable from your post.

It is against the Estate agents code of ethics to keep showing a property after a sale is agreed and offer accepted. They can be taken to their professional association's ombudsman and kicked out.

It took 3 weeks to get a survey done on the place I'm buying and a mortgage offer will take a lot longer. Your buyers did not behave badly - it's normal to come round to evaluate what needs doing - if you don't like the architect's views you really might not like the feedback from a survey! Plus don't forget your buyers may need a mortgage valuation and they won't get a mortgage if it's overpriced in the current market.
And be clear - the current market is very shakey. Where I live prices are falling and buyers are very nervous.

Be careful to take the emotion out of it. Your buyers may well think you're the nightmare to deal with and walk away. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

It should be on as under offer subject to contract - giving the opportunity for further offers. Once contract is signed then sold - ie exchange.

You have to decide firmly what price you want for it - given previous house prices and the wait for survey to see if anything significant - for example whole new roof needed, then negotiate. But take into consideration what you have already knocked off.

Agent is wrong re illegal. If you decide to continue with this agent - I would ask of proof they can proceed - mortgage in principle or if cash buyer proof of that, if you haven't already. Make sure it's dated recently.

Op did you follow them and the architect around?

Maybe you’re too close to this emotionally even though it was your in laws. Is there anyone else who can step in and Handle it instead of you if you can’t cope?

Why were you sitting there in shock? What you're describing is just normal. People are spending lots of money and want to be sure.

Also the estate agent is acting decently, if you've accepted an offer it's okay to take it off the market.

If you think your DH has taken too low of an offer, that's on him.

Most people who buy and sell houses regularly would have strongly advised you against spending anything like £13k to make it like new.

@Thanksforthememory

Having not been used to people openly being rude, which he most certainly was I suppose I have taken it personal but I spent a lot time effort and money on trying to get the inside as perfect as I could so yes I do feel a bit put out especially when they've got a good deal. As for the estate agent yes they are for some reason trying to stop other viewings and as they are working for us supposedly then they should be trying to get the best price which they haven't tried to do as they have lied about it being illegal to keep it on the market. I have to disagree about being greedy because why should the family which there is three of them lose out just so the agent can have a quick and easy sale because it's a fixed fee so it doesn't matter to them how much it sells for.

You sound very emotionally invested.

The words ‘trying to get the inside as perfect as I could’ jump out. Just be aware that it may not be to their taste, they may wish to rip it all out and start again. Really you’d have been better selling it as it was without the time, effort and money you expended.

Also, if the inside is perfect, but the outside has structural issues then it’s not a good buy for them. They need to take advice, which they have. Take a step back and realise it’s business, not a personal slight to you.

Thanks for all the messages. As of this morning we have found out they haven't even got a mortgage of any sort in place so we have cancelled that offer and as the estate agent lied we have told them to that we are terminating that contract as well. The estate agent is obviously only interested in getting his money they should never have taken it off the market especially when he knew we'd reduced it to get a quick sale and as the house is a lot bigger than the normal ones on that road plus a corner plot with a lot more land I think for us to take less is extremely stupid. This isn't the first house I've sold but I've never come across such incompetence from a estate agent before but with this knowledge I'll make sure next time that they are working for us and not themselves and the buyer, I just wonder how many other people he has got away with conning in the past. If we let them we could still be sitting here in 6 months waiting for them to arrange this and that and anyone with a ounce of common sense would understand that you don't put all your eggs in one basket especially when there are so many timewasters out there.

I don’t think you’ve listened to a word anyone has said.

I must admit to being confused by your post, particularly your response to the advice. You do sound v unreasonable from what you have written so far and too emotionally invested, as everyone has already pointed out.

It was sensible and reasonable of them to arrange a second viewing with a knowledgeable family member/ friend. Were they actually rude or where they just making comments to the potential buyers that you found offensive? We had the same situation when we sold our last house but I didn't follow them around and they were perfectly polite. I think your expectations of a survey date and a mortgage fully agreed are unrealistic when the offer was made less than a week ago and surveyors and property solicitors are v busy. Also, if I was a buyer I would expect the property to be removed from the market once the offer had been accepted. I would consider it dishonest and underhand of a seller to continue to show people around having accepted an offer. The EA obviously agreed.

If indeed the EA was only interested in getting their money, then wouldn't it be in their best interests to keep the property on the market?

Yourself and the EA presumably have the same goal... to sell the property. They're not working against you. This would be of no benefit to them whatsoever.