Right of way/Terrace garden issues. Dog mess 😡

[Chosennonesneakymincepie]

I live in a mid terrace. Row of 4. They are 2, we are 3. We have a small garden/yard at the back.
When we bought the house the vendors had to get easement insurance as there was nothing official on the deeds regarding easment. As it is a terrace of 4, just one set of neighbours used the 'presumed ROA' and we have wrought iron fencing and gates. We get on with the neighbours, quite elderley and keep themselves to themselves. It has been fine.

Fast forward a few years. Their yard has become progressively overgrown and cluttered and a bit of an eyesore. The main problem is their 3 dogs use it as a toilet they are struggling to take them out and have a number of health issues so I can sympathise.

However the view through our wrought iron gates is a literal shit tip. They do clean it once a day, but this can mean the crap is there all morning. Few hours clear then all evening. They feel once a day is enough. I have spoken to them politely and wrote an informal letter asking for consideration/neighbourliness on there behalf. They agree and 'do their best' But I can see I may need to ramp this up. Cant bare a mother hot summer with flies and waiting for the clean up whilst say I'm our pretty little courtyard.

Step 1. Do we attach some painted hardboard to our wrought iron fences to 'block's the dog mess.

Step 2. Take photos and ask Environmental Health for advice. We dont use their yard as a ROW but 'presume'we could.

Step 3. Erect a great big FO fence and see if they can prove they have a right of way. They have a gate through the neighbours on their other side, so not land locked.

I’m not understanding what the ROW / easement has to do with their dogs toileting in their private yard - or are they walking through your garden to toilet the dogs in their yard which isn’t connected to their house?

It’s an offence to allow dog mess to accumulate in your garden; but I can’t see EH taking much interest in a garden which is cleared daily. If you get on well, can you not just stress that in summer it’s very smelly and please could they try to pick up twice a day. Could you work with them to help get their garden more manageable so it isn’t overgrown?

What I mean is that we keep our yard clutter free, move summer furniture so they can get through with shopping or the bins. There is nothing on the deeds to say we have to. What if we wanted to go through their gate? Step over the pile of crap?

Their over grown trees and bushes are it an issues, it more the old furniture from their house, old cupboards, ladders, old chairs piled up. The ROW is like an assault course as well a toilet.

a R.O.W. that isn't regularly used will eventually lapse. I am not quite clear whether you have presumed RoW over their land or they have presumed RoW over yours?

Do you have ROW thru their yard or do they have ROW thru yours?
It's unusual to have a mutual ROW

I also don't see how bad their yard can be if they poop scoop daily

If they are picking up daily yabvu

Even with 3 dogs? All on front of the access gate? I just think it shouldn't be lying there for hours on end. I pick up after my dog within 10 mins of her doing a poo.

of course it is disgusting to leave dog crap around. Glad I don't live near someone on here!

if they can't cope with the dogs they should rehome them.

The easement on the deeds dates back to the 1890s when the horse and cart collecting sewage would go through all the back gardens. So officially we could walk through everyones back yards.
Ours is a row of 4 with gates on all our fences. So they take their bins through mine, but they could go the other way. I could walk through theirs. So if I wanted to wade over dog mess!? I could. Its unneighbourly in my opinion.

Do you have a diagram to show what ROW, they have ?

No, ideally the dog mess shouldn’t be left there for hours: but EH are so incredibly stretched that they’re very unlikely to be interested in “my elderly neighbours only clear up the mess once a day.”

Trying to prevent them from using a recognised ROW as retaliation is a) disproportionately antagonistic, since you say they are nice people who are struggling due to age and b) likely to end up as a neighbour dispute, which you’d need to declare when selling your property - so really not a good idea.

Overgrown trees and bushes - what does the deed say regarding allowing clear access for the ROW? Is there covenant which states it must be maintained? Can you suggest to them going halves on a gardener to cut back all the overgrown bushes, since you would like the benefit of a nice view?

I'm not sure I understand this - are you saying there's no mess in your garden but you can see theirs through the wrought iron fencing/gate?? Surely just get a different gate/fence?! Especially as they're elderly... It seems a bit of a non issue to be honest!

So the dogs aren't poohing in your garden at all, you just can see the mess through the wrought iron gate? Unfortunately what people get up to in their privately owned garden isn't really anyone else's business and if they're collecting the poo once a day I can't see EH getting involved. Different if they were leaving mounds of the stuff to fester for weeks on end. The only solution is to get a solid fence and gate.

It sounds to me like you're being a prat. You don't ACTUALLY use their garden as a ROW you just don't like them only clearing up their dog shit only once a day. Get a fence you can't see through, and mind your own fucking business. You sound like horrible neighbours.

I' mo not clear if your access goes through their garden or their through yours? I think you will struggle to get eh support if they clear once a day.

I'm struggling to picture this. Could you fence it better, with a gate that could be used for access if necessary? That way you couldn't see their mess, but wouldn't be violating the access. I think its hard with elderly neighbours. Our next door neighbour is disabled and so the neighbours do the garden for her, otherwise it would be horribly overgrown. Appreciate dog mess is another issue, but I doubt you will make much headway, given that it is about their inability to cope.

The ROW is a red herring. You say yourself you use the other side to access your property.

Ok. So by elderley, I mean early 60s.
So, I am the horrible neighbour because I...
Clear up after my dog immediately.
Leave the yard clear and clutter free
Object to 3 dogs worth of poo building up over hours.
I don't use the row ofbwaybthroughbrheir property.
How awful of me
So in summer when the flies come again and I've got fly tape up on all the windows, what then?
Horrible for mentioning it?
Will definitely get some sort of covering doe wrought iron gates. They look nice but are clearly see through. Not ideal.

I meant that it’s an environmental health issue, not a ROW issue. Why get wound up about it impeding your ROW when you don’t intend to use it?

Well, yes, you are being absolutely ridiculous,yes. First of all, early 60's isn't elderly. You said they were elderly with health problems. So which is it? Clearing up dog shit in your own garden once a day is perfectly reasonable, and even if you did need to access it, WHICH YOU DON'T, it would be tough shit, since it's their property, not yours. I'm sure you're capable of stepping over a dog shit.
You keep your yard clean and tidy? Bully for you. You can't control other people's standards. If it bothers you that much, offer to lend them a hand in the garden. THAT would be the neighbourly thing to do, rather than reporting them.

YABVVVU to say early 60s is 'elderly'. I was going to suggest you help them as they are obviously struggling, but that isn't going to happen is it?

Elderly?? - I'm early bloody 60s and definitely not bloody 'elderly' FFS

Cleaning up dog poo once a day in their own garden is fine FFs.

Elderly 😆

There is no way you can legislate for how your neighbours choose to keep their garden. It might not be up to your standards, but that's just tough I'm afraid. Picking up dog poo daily is fine - I honestly thought you were going to say they never pick it up! . In which case you would have just cause to complain.

In summer you get flies, dog poo or not. I can't believe the dog poo on a daily basis make that much difference.

I said elderly as they are not in great health. I was trying not to be too outing.
Is it classed as a private garden when both your neighbours have access? The neighbours on the other side have had workmen use it recently. It's a row of terraces, gardens are the size of a postage stamp!
If you would all happily sit in your (tiny garden) approx 1m from a pile of dog poo and wee from 3 big dogs and be able to feel happy about how it looks and smells, then you're definitely better neighbours than me.
We do get on well with them, I have offered help through lockdown and we exchange gifts at xmas. I just ask that its cleared up more quickly.

Of course it’s a private garden still. You’re not supposed to impede the ROW, but as I said, if you’re not planning on using the ROW you’re getting wound up about the wrong thing.